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Author Topic: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC South of Liberty  (Read 330228 times)

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Offline neilworms

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC South of Liberty
« Reply #2485 on: March 28, 2014, 07:33:00 PM »
It seems to me that there are a lot of parallels between the anti-gentrification sentiments of today and the anti-integration arguments of the 1950's and 60's.  Neighborhoods are not static- they change countless times over the years, and that is perfectly acceptable.  It's laughable to me to hear gentrification arguments in Cincinnati.  This city is flush with cheap housing, and OTR itself has a ton of affordable housing, much of witch is guaranteed (by HUD) to be in the neighborhood for decades to come.  There are still little bodegas and cheap dining options, there are still tons of social service agencies, shelters, and halfway houses.  What we are finally seeing in OTR is an economically mixed neighborhood.  People react harshly to this because Cincinnati (like many cities) does not have many areas that are truly economically diverse.  Is the trend moving towards more upscale? Absolutely.  Is the trend on much of the West Side moving to more lower class? Probably yes. 

Were black people doing a horrendous thing by moving into predominantly Jewish Avondale and Roselawn? Should the Guatemalans who live in Lower Price Hill be scolded for taking the place of the historically Appalachian community that lived there? Of course not.  Neighborhoods evolve, and as long as there are still options for the poor in the city (there are PLENTY), then please miss me with this gentrification nonsense.  Buying a house or leasing an apartment does not come with a promise that the neighborhood will exist in its current form for all eternity.

I'd like to pack up a group of these anti-gentrifiers and take them to San Francisco where it is extremely hard for even a solidly middle class individual to find housing anywhere in the city.  OTR was a neighborhood of less than 7,000 residents when 3CDC began its redevelopment efforts.  There are still plenty of poor people there, and they assuredly benefit from the lower crime, the redeveloped and cleaned up Washington Park, the better grocery options at the OTR Kroger, and many of the other benefits that come with a revitalized neighborhood.  Sure they might not be able to eat at the Senate every night, but you know what? Neither can I. Most people can't. Deal with it.

I just don't like being called a "wealthy white gentrifier" like I was on Twitter today by this anti-gentrification guy. First of all, it's making an assumption about my income level. Secondly, it's saying that my goal in moving to OTR was to gentrify the neighborhood, eradicate diversity, and turn the entire neighborhood into a playground for other "wealthy white" people, which is the opposite of the reason that I actually live there.
Cincinnati is so harsh to change even a lot of progressives can't accept it. My argument to them is that Cincy isn't San Francisco - it will die if it doesn't change which is worse for everyone. I wish urbanism was more accepted there, seeing it change over the last few years is why I follow news down there

Offline jdm00

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC South of Liberty
« Reply #2486 on: March 30, 2014, 12:33:00 PM »
One thing that gets me, at least on Twitter, is the number of gentrification critics who live nowhere near the urban core.  It's easy to call someone a gentrifier and lament alleged displacement when you are sitting in a house on the 275 loop. 

Offline ProkNo5

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC South of Liberty
« Reply #2487 on: March 30, 2014, 01:13:07 PM »
One thing that gets me, at least on Twitter, is the number of gentrification critics who live nowhere near the urban core.  It's easy to call someone a gentrifier and lament alleged displacement when you are sitting in a house on the 275 loop. 

These are the people I understand the most.  They moved way out there to escape the problems of the city.  Any improvements in the city, in their minds, means a displacement of the problems out toward them.  It's such a small equation for them.  They completely fail to recognize so many variables.
Here's to Cincinnati, The Queen of the West,
A dirty old city, but still nobly blest.
For it's here that fine arts with the frivolous twine,
A veritable Deutschland just Over the Rhine.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC South of Liberty
« Reply #2488 on: March 30, 2014, 01:55:38 PM »
If the city improves, then they are "wrong" about saying how it sucks.  Everybody likes to think that they're decision on where to buy a house was the wisest one.  You will know what I'm talking about as soon as you start looking for a house -- all the sudden everyone wants you to buy a house or condo in their neighborhood. 

The problem is that a long-term investment in a house is like sitting on a stock for 30 years.  The world changes in 30 years and there are very few neighborhoods in the United States that are like sitting on shares P&G or GE that whole time. 

Online TheHemroid

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC South of Liberty
« Reply #2489 on: March 30, 2014, 02:52:53 PM »
What I have found, and some might not agree, is that residents living in or close to the urban core care about the entire region as a whole.  The people who live 15+ miles out only care about what's happening out there.  Its a cluster of close-mindedness.  OTR is going through a renaissance and the sad truth is we have people in the suburbs who haven't been downtown in years.

Offline ProkNo5

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC South of Liberty
« Reply #2490 on: March 30, 2014, 04:27:36 PM »
To be fair, I find myself caring more about what happens in the core than I do I'm the burbs.

I think the big difference is that I'm apathetic to what happens out there while people from the burbs have very loud opinions about what happens in the city.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 04:28:30 PM by ProkNo5 »
Here's to Cincinnati, The Queen of the West,
A dirty old city, but still nobly blest.
For it's here that fine arts with the frivolous twine,
A veritable Deutschland just Over the Rhine.

Offline IAGuy39

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC South of Liberty
« Reply #2491 on: March 31, 2014, 03:27:34 PM »
On a different topic, who here feels that even 25 mph is a bit fast in OTR?  I always drive close to 15-20 mph and feel like 25 mph is going super fast especially on Vine Street, but mostly all north-south streets between Sycamore and Elm.  If you are going on an East-West street south of Liberty, 25 mph is definitely too fast.

Should they change the speed limit through the area?

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC South of Liberty
« Reply #2492 on: March 31, 2014, 04:12:32 PM »
I'd agree with that assessment. Thankfully much of the time there is too much activity happening to actually achieve those speeds, but 15-20 seems way more appropriate for the size of the streets, pedestrian levels, people parking, people crossing, etc. Whenever I get south of Liberty on Vine when coming from Clifton my speed drops from around 30 to about 15. It is a much more comfortable speed for that area and makes significantly more sense. If you try to go 25 you're just constantly accelerating then braking because there's always something going on in front of you. If you choose a slower cruising speed it's more likely the flow will better match.

Offline ProkNo5

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC South of Liberty
« Reply #2493 on: March 31, 2014, 11:31:52 PM »
Yeah, I agree that 25 is too fast, but nobody ever goes that fast anyway.  I'd fully support a change in the speed limit, but I'm not about to champion a change.  There are just bigger fish to fry, in my opinion.
Here's to Cincinnati, The Queen of the West,
A dirty old city, but still nobly blest.
For it's here that fine arts with the frivolous twine,
A veritable Deutschland just Over the Rhine.