Topic: Columbus: Conventions and Tourism News & Info

[Evergrey]

and Columbus has the German Village which blows away the entire state of Florida.

I'm suprised Columbus is a bigger tourism draw than Cleveland... (though I would rather visit Columbus myself)... I would assume much of that is do to OSU and Easton.

[Mov2Ohio]

Maybe it has to do with Easton. but that mall has the same crap as everywhere else nothing special.

[ColDayMan]

Orlando has world and Las Vegas has gambling, alcohol and prostitutes ie big flashy tourist attractions. We don't. Scottsdale, I have no idea what the big draw would be; was that a sarcastic comparison that even they get more tourists than us?  I hear what you're saying, but having those streetcars can only help tourism. It'll make the city accesible to out-of-state visitors, the vast majority being those at the convention center. And hey, it would leave a better impression of the city on a lot of OSU students from outside the state. Assuming that line to OSU gets built anytime soon, soon being relative.

You proved my point in the beginning.  Las Vegas HAS attractions; Orlando HAS attractions; regardless of car or not.  Columbus needs better MARKETING.  Transit is a nice thing to have for the EXISTING community but for tourists, better MARKETING of areas such as the German Village, Victorian Village/Short North, or even the Columbus Zoo is what needs to happen.

Maybe it has to do with Easton. but that mall has the same crap as everywhere else nothing special.

Well, when you have The Limited HQ across the street, of course heavy marketing and "flagships" are going to be there for a major draw.

[Florida Guy]

and Columbus has the German Village which blows away the entire state of Florida

No question it blows away cheesy Orlando but the "entire" state of Florida? You can't compare one urban area against an entire rural/urban area (state).

Have you ever visited St. Augustine, Miami and Miami Beach? Don't get me wrong, GV is one of the most unique neighborhoods in Columbus. I have friends that live there as well and I love it.

[Keith M.]

You proved my point in the beginning.  Las Vegas HAS attractions; Orlando HAS attractions; regardless of car or not.  Columbus needs better MARKETING.  Transit is a nice thing to have for the EXISTING community but for tourists, better MARKETING of areas such as the German Village, Victorian Village/Short North, or even the Columbus Zoo is what needs to happen.

No doubt we lack marketing, but I don't think that's the case for the zoo. Jack Hanna makes rounds on late night shows quite a bit. Aside from that, I think streetcars will help in the sense that you won't have to seek these places out on your own, since one can just hop on the streetcar and it'll take you there. I'd like to see some more attractions downtown, as the museum of art and COSI isn't all that much. Like I said before, a well executed centrally located public space would be something I'd like to see.

[Keith M.]

and Columbus has the German Village which blows away the entire state of Florida

No question it blows away cheesy Orlando but the "entire" state of Florida? You can't compare one urban area against an entire rural/urban area (state).

Have you ever visited St. Augustine, Miami and Miami Beach? Don't get me wrong, GV is one of the most unique neighborhoods in Columbus. I have friends that live there as well and I love it.

I sensed a hint of sarcasm.

[Brutus_buckeye]

now not to disrepect columbus, but C'mon now, if I were planning a vacation or even weekend trip to a destination, it certainly would not be to check out the sights and attractions of Columbus (outside of OSU football maybe).

But that goes to my second point, if Columbus wants to attract visitors it needs to bring in events to do it, it cant rely on its permanent attractions to sustain it. For example, Indy, a similar city to Columbus. Both are rather plain, flat, and ununique but Indy does quite well in the tourism area because of their connections to the NCAA (and Indy 500). Indy recruits the big events i.e. Final Four, Big 10 tourney etc. This gets people to visit a place they could really care less about. Columbus needs these types of events to help its tourism since the city really differentiate itself otherwise

[ColDayMan]

You proved my point in the beginning.  Las Vegas HAS attractions; Orlando HAS attractions; regardless of car or not.  Columbus needs better MARKETING.  Transit is a nice thing to have for the EXISTING community but for tourists, better MARKETING of areas such as the German Village, Victorian Village/Short North, or even the Columbus Zoo is what needs to happen.

No doubt we lack marketing, but I don't think that's the case for the zoo. Jack Hanna makes rounds on late night shows quite a bit. Aside from that, I think streetcars will help in the sense that you won't have to seek these places out on your own, since one can just hop on the streetcar and it'll take you there. I'd like to see some more attractions downtown, as the museum of art and COSI isn't all that much. Like I said before, a well executed centrally located public space would be something I'd like to see.

The streetcar should be geared towards local residents moreso than a "tourist trolley" (though I'm sure it'll act that way, due to the Convention Center guests).  I do agree that downtown needs more attractions (hell, even one major one would work).  And I know exactly where to put it...CITY CENTER.

[ColDayMan]

now not to disrepect columbus, but C'mon now, if I were planning a vacation or even weekend trip to a destination, it certainly would not be to check out the sights and attractions of Columbus (outside of OSU football maybe).

But that goes to my second point, if Columbus wants to attract visitors it needs to bring in events to do it, it cant rely on its permanent attractions to sustain it. For example, Indy, a similar city to Columbus. Both are rather plain, flat, and ununique but Indy does quite well in the tourism area because of their connections to the NCAA (and Indy 500). Indy recruits the big events i.e. Final Four, Big 10 tourney etc. This gets people to visit a place they could really care less about. Columbus needs these types of events to help its tourism since the city really differentiate itself otherwise

I'm not worried about convention (which is what you are addressing) as Columbus does a DAMN good job in convention bookings.  But...I agree with your first statement:  What does Columbus have to bring tourists in the first place?  One can only sell Buckeye football tickets for so much.  I suppose that idea of marketing would change perception, as Columbus actually does have some interesting things to bring tourists too (hell, tourists flock to Charleston and Savannah for unique neighborhood atmospheres...so why NOT the German Village?).

[Magyar]

You proved my point in the beginning.  Las Vegas HAS attractions; Orlando HAS attractions; regardless of car or not.  Columbus needs better MARKETING.  Transit is a nice thing to have for the EXISTING community but for tourists, better MARKETING of areas such as the German Village, Victorian Village/Short North, or even the Columbus Zoo is what needs to happen.

No doubt we lack marketing, but I don't think that's the case for the zoo. Jack Hanna makes rounds on late night shows quite a bit. Aside from that, I think streetcars will help in the sense that you won't have to seek these places out on your own, since one can just hop on the streetcar and it'll take you there.

Take you where?
If the Streetcar only goes up and down High Street and there are no visual cues to suggest you stop, or get off, what good does it do you?
With this discussion about promotion.  How about a good MAP.  So you can have a clue as to where you want to go and a route to get there.  Then you can worry about how to get there.

[Evergrey]

  I suppose that idea of marketing would change perception, as Columbus actually does have some interesting things to bring tourists too (hell, tourists flock to Charleston and Savannah for unique neighborhood atmospheres...so why NOT the German Village?).

Agreed.  It really is all about "marketing" and "perception".  Does anybody think about German Village when they think of Columbus?  Does anybody realize a fascinating historic neighborhood like that exists in Columbus (Georgia or Ohio?)... No.... they think it's "plain" and "boring" and lacking anything of historic interest... like Indianapolis.  While there are similarities between C-bus and Indy (interstate loop, same city AND metro population, state capital located in exact center of the state, etc), the core urban built environments couldn't be more different. 

[AmrapinVA]

and Columbus has the German Village which blows away the entire state of Florida.

I'm suprised Columbus is a bigger tourism draw than Cleveland... (though I would rather visit Columbus myself)... I would assume much of that is do to OSU and Easton.

Cleveland was at the epicenter of the last recession. It's nice to see it's recovering well from that time. The amount of bad press/negative views Cleveland gets, it's amazing that $4.5 billion gets spent there.

[Wheelingman]

Columbus is awesome and flat cities rule!!!!!!!!!!!

[Keith M.]

Take you where?
If the Streetcar only goes up and down High Street and there are no visual cues to suggest you stop, or get off, what good does it do you?
With this discussion about promotion.  How about a good MAP.  So you can have a clue as to where you want to go and a route to get there.  Then you can worry about how to get there.

I would think a color-coded map of the neighborhoods at the stops would just be included, but then this is Columbus we're talking about. I could see something like that being overlooked.

[Evergrey]

and Columbus has the German Village which blows away the entire state of Florida.

I'm suprised Columbus is a bigger tourism draw than Cleveland... (though I would rather visit Columbus myself)... I would assume much of that is do to OSU and Easton.

Cleveland was at the epicenter of the last recession. It's nice to see it's recovering well from that time. The amount of bad press/negative views Cleveland gets, it's amazing that $4.5 billion gets spent there.

But Cleveland also had the most incredible PR campaign ever in the 90s... with the whole "Cleveland Rocks" thing and the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame and the Flats (which everyone outside of Cleveland still thinks exists) and Drew Carrey.  At least from my experience... Cleveland had a rather positive perception amongst the general population (much more so than Pittsburgh or Cincinnati).  And though Columbus is now approaching Cleveland's metro in population... Cleveland has always been perceived as offering more of a "big-city" experience with its theaters, museums and other attractions... which is why I'm suprised it doesn't compete with Columbus concerning tourist dollars. 

[Brutus_buckeye]

Columbus has a long way to go before it approaches Clevelands metro population, it still has to catch Cincinnati.

I think one of the reasons why Cleveland gets more positive press and for a limited amount Cincinnati is the pro-sports. As stated above, in the 90's Cleveland had the new Rock Hall, along with the flats and on top of that they had a new baseball stadium with a team that was winning consistently. The baseball team gave the entire city positive energy, and it iminated out regionally and nationally. People watching highlights on ESPN saw Cleveland as an exciting place worth checking out and, they were able to sell the city off the positive energy from the winning baseball team. Cincinnati has that to a certain extent with the Bengals now. Indy has that with the Colts.

I was living in Cleveland in the Mid 90s and Columbus back in 2002 when the Bucks won the NC and now I am in Cincy, and I must say that the buzz generated locally and regionally by a successful pro-sports team is much greater than it is for college and contributes to a positive vibe about the city. Lets face it, people around the country know of places because of their sports teams. A team that gets a lot of air on ESPN people associate with the city. Unfortunately Cbus lacks in that area because Hockey and Soccer do not sell as well as the other sports. OSU football helps but it is not the same as a professional sports team. Besides the fact that Ohio State does not have Columbus in its name limits the association an outsider would have with Columbus.

[jamiec]

and Columbus has the German Village which blows away the entire state of Florida.

I'm suprised Columbus is a bigger tourism draw than Cleveland... (though I would rather visit Columbus myself)... I would assume much of that is do to OSU and Easton.

Cleveland was at the epicenter of the last recession. It's nice to see it's recovering well from that time. The amount of bad press/negative views Cleveland gets, it's amazing that $4.5 billion gets spent there.

But Cleveland also had the most incredible PR campaign ever in the 90s... with the whole "Cleveland Rocks" thing and the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame and the Flats (which everyone outside of Cleveland still thinks exists) and Drew Carrey.  At least from my experience... Cleveland had a rather positive perception amongst the general population (much more so than Pittsburgh or Cincinnati).  And though Columbus is now approaching Cleveland's metro in population... Cleveland has always been perceived as offering more of a "big-city" experience with its theaters, museums and other attractions... which is why I'm suprised it doesn't compete with Columbus concerning tourist dollars. 

You'd need to do a comprehensive clip report to see if Cleveland does in fact get far more "good" publicity than Columbus and Cincinnati. I have no idea, although I suppose if we assumed that is true, we might be able to attribute it to the size of the area, the history, the sports, etc. Of course, if we assume anything, well, you know the saying

I sat in on a meeting on marketing Cleveland recently, and they have done a few studies and found that people in other parts of the country have basically no knowledge of Cleveland. They know it exists, of course, but outside of that, they don't have a positive or negative impression. Overall, the negativity comes more from the people who live here than outsiders. That's interesting!

When you see good stories about Cleveland, you often see them on the "rediscover Cleveland" angle. For Columbus, it seems like the stories are "discover Columbus." So, you have two cities at two different points with two different backgrounds.

Cleveland's massive PR/marketing successes in the 1990s are impressive. But then the campaign stopped! You can't expect a big marketing campaign to last 10 years! Can you imagine if Nike all of the sudden just stopped advertising/marketing? You either have to boost your marketing spending or at least maintain it in order to raise awareness of a brand. Cleveland just dumped the whole thing. There are too many cities out there fighting for the same dollars.

[MyTwoSense]

You'd need to do a comprehensive clip report to see if Cleveland does in fact get far more "good" publicity than Columbus and Cincinnati. I have no idea, although I suppose if we assumed that is true, we might be able to attribute it to the size of the area, the history, the sports, etc. Of course, if we assume anything, well, you know the saying

I sat in on a meeting on marketing Cleveland recently, and they have done a few studies and found that people in other parts of the country have basically no knowledge of Cleveland. They know it exists, of course, but outside of that, they don't have a positive or negative impression. Overall, the negativity comes more from the people who live here than outsiders. That's interesting!

When you see good stories about Cleveland, you often see them on the "rediscover Cleveland" angle. For Columbus, it seems like the stories are "discover Columbus." So, you have two cities at two different points with two different backgrounds.

Cleveland's massive PR/marketing successes in the 1990s are impressive. But then the campaign stopped! You can't expect a big marketing campaign to last 10 years! Can you imagine if Nike all of the sudden just stopped advertising/marketing? You either have to boost your marketing spending or at least maintain it in order to raise awareness of a brand. Cleveland just dumped the whole thing. There are too many cities out there fighting for the same dollars.

I slightly disagree, and in no way is this a diss to either Cleveland or Columbus.  I know I spoke about this before but can't find it.  But my group did some studies and research for focus groups and marketing information. 

People simply don't know where Columbus, OH is.    When we asked people where Ohio State was, the people who knew where an overwhelming majority of men.  Rewording the question to something like, where is Ohio State located, they would answer, Columbus, "TN" or even "MS".  Columbus is refered to as a "college town" and not thought of as business city.  There are a lot of people who think once you leave greater cleveland the rest of the state is cow pastures.

jamiec, you are dead on point.  I know middle management and lower level execs that are relocating here for TWC jobs, most are like, I had no idea Cleveland was as nice as it is.  When they did the city tour so folks could become familiar with neighborhoods, the folks fro Charlotte, were amazed at how large Cleveland is (they think Charlotte is BIG ) and those moving from other large cities were amazed at the diverse collection of neighborhoods and how CHEAP housing is and how much further there dollar can go.

Cleveland/Cuyahoga County (the state of Ohio) has done very little to promote the city (the state).  Thinks about when tower city opened, you saw the "downtown" ads EVERYWHERE. 

Cleveland has been in a holding pattern for years, its not that people dont know were here, they haven't heard anything from Cleveland for some time, while places like SLC, Portland, Seattle, Charlotte, Austin have ramped up advertising nationally to appeal to younger people. and places like Boston, Philly and Dallas have been advertising their diverse cities especially to niche groups like black women, Asians and Gay/Lesbians.  Ohio is often viewed as racist and homophobic.

Now in regards to columbus gaining more dollars, the cities, rarely overlap, for convention dollars, Columbus is more "regional" and Cleveland is competing for national, regional and international convention dollars.  Also, Cleveland has the big city amenities, as jamiec mentioned, that Columbus, pittsbugh, indi, Cinci cannot compete with.

Jamiec - in regard to negativetiy starting here, I've often said, that people here complain about life here without any real knowledge of how life is in other cities and generalize that life is better elsewhere.    Many people who believe the grass is greener else, say ATL, sometimes need to move away from Cleveland to really appreciate how great Cleveland really is.  Also, there is nothing wrong with the flats TODAY.  It served its purpose at that time in its long storied amazing life, now its time for the Flats to evolve into something different.

[glutmax]

I don't know how they calculate tourist/visitor dollars, but you would have to think that Columbus has an advantage over Cleveland simply because it is the state capital.  State governtment officials travel there, high school sports tournaments occur their, all kinds of highschool extracurricular events go there, state agricultural/business/higher education meetings occur at least yearly.  It pays to be the Cap-City.

[MyTwoSense]

I don't know how they calculate tourist/visitor dollars, but you would have to think that Columbus has an advantage over Cleveland simply because it is the state capital.  State governtment officials travel there, high school sports tournaments occur their, all kinds of highschool extracurricular events go there, state agricultural/business/higher education meetings occur at least yearly.  It pays to be the Cap-City.

Those high school events are low, as they have budget caps.  High school student in columbus for a state meet isn't spending money at (sit down) restaurants, bars, taxis, hotels (since they have very low negotiated rates and kids are spending on incidentals), public transportation or convention facilities.  In additoin, Columbus, is not a hub airport city.

[glutmax]

But there families are.

[MyTwoSense]

But there families are.

"there" or "their"?  Anyway, the families are most likely using the negotiated rates.  Also, if my kid is playing in a basketball tourney, I highly doubt that a family is going out to restaurants, renting cars (as they most likely will be driving to a place on the campus of OSU) so they aren't staying at a hotel.  Bars/Clubs/Lounges don't cater to underaged minors.

It just doesn't add up.

[glutmax]

I'm just trying to explain how columbus pulls more "tourist" money than Cleveland/Cuyahoga county per the above article (and I know, I'm sure the methodology is flawed).  Your explanation, please.  And I do regret the grammatical error, my apologies (additoin?)  .

[Florida Guy]

I think one of the reasons why Cleveland gets more positive press and for a limited amount Cincinnati is the pro-sports.

From my personal experience this is true. Recently a co-worker asked me where I was from, when I said Cleveland he replied: "You must love the Browns, they have some of the best fans." Something about Cleveland sports is mentioned by the other party when I'm asked that question.

[edale]

Where would one find the numbers for tourists to Ohio cities?

[AmrapinVA]

and Columbus has the German Village which blows away the entire state of Florida.

I'm surprised Columbus is a bigger tourism draw than Cleveland... (though I would rather visit Columbus myself)... I would assume much of that is do to OSU and Easton.

Cleveland was at the epicenter of the last recession. It's nice to see it's recovering well from that time. The amount of bad press/negative views Cleveland gets, it's amazing that $4.5 billion gets spent there.

But Cleveland also had the most incredible PR campaign ever in the 90s... with the whole "Cleveland Rocks" thing and the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame and the Flats (which everyone outside of Cleveland still thinks exists) and Drew Carrey.  At least from my experience... Cleveland had a rather positive perception amongst the general population (much more so than Pittsburgh or Cincinnati).  And though Columbus is now approaching Cleveland's metro in population... Cleveland has always been perceived as offering more of a "big-city" experience with its theaters, museums and other attractions... which is why I'm surprised it doesn't compete with Columbus concerning tourist dollars. 

Rant on>>

When was there ever a PR campaign for Cleveland and the Rock Hall?

The HOF folks never wanted the museum in Cleveland. It took a grass-roots effort of monumental proportion to get it there. The HOF folks wanted it in LA, NYC, Memphis and all other sorts of places. But the people in Cleveland damn near willed it to the city when there was the "balloting" for where the Rock Hall would be. Cleveland put up three times the votes of the second place finisher -- Memphis. Even when it was decided, Rolling Stone magazine went on a tirade about putting it there. I'll never forget an mid-90's interview with that Swan-wearing no-talent Bjork when they asked her what she thought of Cleveland. She said there was no difference between C-land and small town Utah. Then on top of all that crap, the HOF folks still have the induction ceremony in NYC. They bitched and moaned for the first five years about declining attendance numbers, although I believe it's turned that corner much to their surprise. PR campaign, my ass.

As for other preceptions of Cleveland, lets be honest:

The river caught on fire 35 years ago.

The mayor's hair caught on fire 30 years ago.

No Cleveland team has won sh!t in 40 years.
The Browns move to Baltimore and win a SB 5 years after they left.

Unfortunately, Cleveland is still associated with loser.

When the Browns played the Skins in a preseason game a few years back. The Skins pre game show announcer referenced "The Mistake by the Lake" four times.

"Major League" which is still shown like clockwork, while entertaining as sh!t, makes Cleveland out to be a dump. Likewise with "American Splendor". "Antoine Fisher" shows the beauty of San Diego...and makes Cleveland look like a crime ridden s-hole that you must flee in order to have a better life. 

Oh yeah, lets not forget the "Mistake by the Lake". While Pittsburgh gets the "The Steel City" moniker and Cincinnati gets the "The Queen City", we are relegated that stupid crap. And yet somehow, according to you, Cleveland is looked upon as better by the general population?

Drew Carey is another example. NBC didn't believe the show would believe his show would work because it was based in Cleveland. He had to damn near beg ABC to base the show in Cleveland. Both networks thought Chicago would be "more believeable". As far as I know it's the only TV show in the past 25 years based in Cleveland....and it took someone from Cleveland to make it happen. Pittsburgh on the other hand gets shown in a fair amount a flicks and as used as backdrop city on TV shows all the time. "The Guardian" being the last. Cincy gets the screw as much as Cleveland in that regard.

Living somewhere outside Ohio, do you know what's it like when someone asks you where you're from and then when you say it you almost have to wince because you don't know what stupid crap is gonna come out of their mouth? It's more than just that stupid Red-state hick crap. There's "Did they put the fire out?", "Aren't you glad you live here now" and of course "I'm sorry". The last response usually gets a "f#ck you" from me and the subject is dropped. The only people not from Cleveland who have ever said anything positive about the place, in my experience, are people that lived there for a period, who ususally say "it's not nearly as bad as I had heard." No sh!t!

The only advantage to having Cleveland sh!t on all the time, is that people know where it is. (Probably more so than Pitt or Cincy.) And it's not just in the US, but throughout the world. When I go to Japan, I'd say 9 out of 10 people know Cleveland (mostly from "Major League", and that Japanese gay porn-star pitcher the Indians had for a while.)

I find it really hard to believe that Cleveland is coming out neutral in these polls. Maybe it is, but I have yet to see it in my experience living outside Ohio.

[3231]

I think one of the reasons why Cleveland gets more positive press and for a limited amount Cincinnati is the pro-sports.

From my personal experience this is true. Recently a co-worker asked me where I was from, when I said Cleveland he replied: "You must love the Browns, they have some of the best fans." Something about Cleveland sports is mentioned by the other party when I'm asked that question.

Winning sports teams do a lot for a city's image. Let's hope that Lebron & Co. have a very successful year.

[MyTwoSense]

This is about columbus folks.......lets get back to the topic as this is starting to sound like a "comparison" thread.

[ColDayMan]

The only advantage to having Cleveland sh!t on all the time, is that people know where it is. (Probably more so than Pitt or Cincy.)

I generally found that all three are known equally, internationally (due to the "unique" names, I suppose...and sports...).

[ColDayMan]

This is about columbus folks.......lets get back to the topic as this is starting to sound like a "comparison" thread.

Well, a Columbus thread isn't a Columbus thread without Clevelanders talking about random stuff in a Columbus thread.

[kingfish out of water]

I think Columbus can go small with its marketing image and do quite well.

As a city, Columbus doesn't have any big bad stuff to live down (unless you're attending classes in Ann Arbor), but at the same time, it doesn't have much to live up to, either. The Zoo and COSI ostensibly are attractions, but neither generate much enthusiasm. The capitol; the largest public university; cutting edge malls. Bo-ring.

So, what does Columbus have? Here's what: exactly enough fun for one couples (gay or straight) weekend getaway, and enough left over to tease you back for more.

You can park the car or cab in from the airport and enjoy awesome, centrally located accomodations and a boatload of restaurants, parks and places to walk to. Throw in a show at The Palace or Ohio, a cheap cab out to the Franklin Park Conservatory, a meal and a drink and a healthy dose of people watching in the Short North, a spin through the art museum, an afternoon of gallery hopping and shopping and maybe a game/event at the Nationwide Arena, and boom, you've blown a weekend on foot and on your ass.

Basically a low-budget tourist weekend in NYC without all the stuff you don't have time to do.

[ColDayMan]

Basically a low-budget tourist weekend in NYC without all the stuff you don't have time to do.

Columbus: SoHo Minus the Dough

[jamiec]

I'm not sure where we stand on this discussion, but I'd have to say Columbus right now is very "accessible." I mean by that, Columbus has some really nice Web sites and programs...The "Experience Columbus" site and the living downtown site and Retro Metro and Metro-Rentals....Plus Columbus Alive is a good little "unbiased" way to attract young people.

Columbus might be a little less "known" but I think the brand is building slowly but surely! Bring on those streetcars! And build up density downtown.

[MyTwoSense]

Basically a low-budget tourist weekend in NYC without all the stuff you don't have time to do.

Columbus: SoHo Minus the Dough

SoHo??  Child please!

[ColDayMan]

Basically a low-budget tourist weekend in NYC without all the stuff you don't have time to do.

Columbus: SoHo Minus the Dough

SoHo??  Child please!

This, coming from the person who once compared Cleveland and New York neighborhoods to a potential Cleveland transplant.

Tsk tsk.