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Johio
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A line from Ohio State to German Village with a possible loop through the Arena District would do absolutely amazing things for Columbus.
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Columbusite
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If there's going to be a streetcar to make it easier to access CC, then why not an east-west route? That makes it easy to park along the line Downtown (and outside where you wouldn't have to pay for a meter) and spur development in Franklinton (W Broad & Sullivant) and King-Lincoln (Long & Mt Vernon) to multiply the improvements that are occurring in both. Downtown would still see development, albeit east-west and off of High, which is a good thing. It's about time one of the largest cities in the country had more than one serious, urban commercial street. And here's a streetcar map I slapped together where the park would be easily accessible by the totally hypothetical streetcar (I was greedy with the ideal length of the routes). We absolutely, desperately need to focus on totally filling in a handful of streets downtown. Since the city thought I didn't know what I was talking about (they now have isolated condo buildings randomly dispersed all over Downtown) it would be nice to see a streetcar which would essentially do what I suggested and that is to concentrate development in a smaller area. It took them a few years to get on the ball, but with Gay St, Front St, and now this park, it looks like they've come around. Still, we've got a ways to go and after having visited Lowell, MA it's amazing to see what an intact, larger-sized downtown looks like and the effects of almost no parking lots. As an aside, the Short North is too popular and as a result "suffers" from a "lack" of parking for cars, but not for bikes and scooters, of which there is plenty if people don't want to circle around forever in their cars. The SN can't meet the demand, so why not bring this "problem" to a couple of bordering up-and-coming neighborhoods that would be glad to have it, including Downtown? There are definitely enough people that prefer a less polished, less overcrowded commercial street away from there with a handful of options or so for spending the night out. Hal & Al's, Carabar, and Bristol Bar demonstrate that you can attract a crowd to even Parsons (OTE & Merion Village) and E 5th Ave (In Weinland Park of all places) all of which have already opened the way for more quality destinations in these areas. Downtown is not as gritty and doesn't suffer from the image problem of it's neighbors to the west and east. There are also places that attract a crowd mostly north of Broad and the new park, if surrounded by after hours establishments, could certainly bring them further south.
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David
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Thanks for reassuring me that I'm not crazy lol I wonder why people insist on a North-South, High St. route. It's like people don't have faith in other parts of town that are less developed or something 
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treesketcher
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Since were still on this topic on this thread...I would love to see a downtown circulator streetcar that makes it way over to OTE and Franklinton with two major downtown terminals, Columbus Commons and the transit terminal at the convention center. This could connect those neighborhoods with the library, high street, arena district (possibly) several hospitals, grocery stores, art museum, CCAD & CSCC, the CBD & jobs, etc. IMO, with the north corridor light rail in place, this would be the most appropriate starting point for a streetcar system in Columbus; similar to Portland's streetcar which runs perpendicular to the regional light rail system. It would be much harder to get this off the ground though as it most likely would have to be locally funded unless the feds loosen their rules.
The reason the north corridor is feasible is because it is the most dense corridor in the region, so is most likely to receive federal funding. And even then with downtown, OSU, and the SN along the route, it is still (according to various members of city council) in need of additional density to make the case stronger. If we want local rail at all that serves more than commuters, this is our best shot at getting it started.
If both are built with Columbus Commons having some streetcar link to the east and west, then the park and the surrounding development I believe would have a shot to become the true urban "center" it was always meant to be.
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LAsam
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I lived in Columbus for over a decade, and I can tell you without a doubt in my mind that it will take a monumental cultural shift in that town for people to start seeing busses as real transportation options. Columbus lacks synergy between all it's developed inner-city areas and in my opinion, some form of rail would do wonders for connecting these areas and pushing the development further.
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Johio
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Thanks for reassuring me that I'm not crazy lol
I wonder why people insist on a North-South, High St. route. It's like people don't have faith in other parts of town that are less developed or something
Baby steps. I understand what you're getting at here in terms of revitalizing other neglected parts of town but to me it makes more sense to connect the dots of the city's already premier attraction areas and allowing them to grow to their full potential and then continue to push outward. There are still plenty of areas along High Street that could use some TLC.
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David
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Thanks for reassuring me that I'm not crazy lol
I wonder why people insist on a North-South, High St. route. It's like people don't have faith in other parts of town that are less developed or something
Baby steps.
I understand what you're getting at here in terms of revitalizing other neglected parts of town but to me it makes more sense to connect the dots of the city's already premier attraction areas and allowing them to grow to their full potential and then continue to push outward. There are still plenty of areas along High Street that could use some TLC.
Those dots you want to connect are already a part of every Columbusite's psychogeographic mindset imo. The only difference is they drive on that route instead of having a fixed streetcar line dictate it. I think that for most people in the metro, Columbus is basically a bunch of dots along High St. with a few more dots off to the left, in the Arena District. It's sad! The thing is - developers will buy properties with just speculation of a streetcar route nearby. We've already seen that in Cincinnati. I think we would be better off focusing on downtown - connecting downtown to the edge of the Short North, Arena District, CCAD, CSCC, German Village, Broad&High, Columbus Commons, Mt. Carmel, things like that. It would give developers the confidence to invest in human scaled residential neighborhoods downtown and fill in the rest of those parking lot gaps. You cannot convince me that the Short North would provide a more favorable cost/benefit ratio than downtown. The possibilities downtown are endless. Streetcars and human scaled residential/commercial buildings complement each other very well and that imo is what downtown is lacking. Put the resources where you need change the most, I say. Not somewhere that is seeing diminishing returns. I think a streetcar connecting downtown to Franklinton would even be a better investment than running it through the Short North. Lets say for instance you have a streetcar already connecting various dots downtown like this Columbus Commons and then they do a phase going as far as Mt. Carmel, via Broad St. Mt. Carmel has a huge employment base including young professionals who work there as well as Nursing students. Those people working at that huge employment center (many of which have a lot of buying power) have every reason to live near where they work as it would be on the streetcar line, close to some nice unique restaurants on Broad and only a hop skip and a jump from downtown. In fact, a streetcar going to the west side would reinforce Franklinton as basically an extention of downtown. COSI would be so easy to market to families and with more young professionals in the area it would be safer, which is the highest priority of families. They would also get decent sized back yards. Developers could probably get away with razing a lot of properties and given that Franklinton's architecture isn't as ornate as it is well proportioned, they could build decent buildings relatively cheaply and it would still be considered charming. I swear, N. High St. must put a spell on people or something. People are so in love with it! I feel all alone on a sinking ship. Sorry if I sound like a broken record. I get frustrated because it seems like people want to reinforce the patterns of development in Columbus rather than reinvigorating the city by trying something new.
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dmerkow
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Columbus would do great with Philadelphia's rail transit system (mirrored).
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LAsam
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David,
The thing about Columbus is that there's no way you would get the E-W rail line along broad until you demonstrate to the taxpayers that a rail line can be successful in Columbus. The only place I can see a line being successful right out of the box is N-S along High St. Once that line is in place and thriving, you can execute phase two to link the city E-W.
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J.Remy
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I still think the latest design proposal is a travesty. Who designed it again?
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Johio
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David,
The thing about Columbus is that there's no way you would get the E-W rail line along broad until you demonstrate to the taxpayers that a rail line can be successful in Columbus. The only place I can see a line being successful right out of the box is N-S along High St. Once that line is in place and thriving, you can execute phase two to link the city E-W.
Bingo
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jking222222
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True urban link? There's already great bus service. Why can't people just learn to read a bus schedule?
Unless things have changed since I was there (probably have a bit) great bus service is the last thing Columbus has. I believe it was ranked the worst out of 30 major cities in the U.S. I remember having to walk home from downtown on Sundays because the buses stopped running at 7pm!!! Great bus service is not something someone who rides the bus often (at least used to) would say about COTA. So many memories of waiting an hour for a bus or more and then the bus only going kind of where you're going... good luck trying to get out to the suburbs at any time other than the morning or evening commute etc... Columbus public transportation = horrible. At least that's what it was like in 2003... maybe it's changed - EDIT: It just occurred to me you were talking about OSU <-> Downtown on high street... Yeah, it's better service - about typical of any normal route in most other cities, but it still stopped running on Sunday nights and I still remember it being absolutely crammed most of the time.
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rider
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Columbus public transportation = horrible. At least that's what it was like in 2003... maybe it's changed -
2003 was probably the low ebb for COTA bus operations. Scandal plagued management and spotty customer service was rampant then. Its improved quite a bit since with new management, a new levy and much better route service. So you could probably upgrade Columbus public transportation to tolerable. But busses are the low end of the public transportation food chain. For it to get significantly better, it must include some kind of streetcar/light rail system. I still think the latest design proposal is a travesty. Who designed it again?
Three Columbus firms make up the design/build team for Columbus Commons: construction firm Corna-Kokosing, architects Moody Nolan and landscape architects EDGE Group.
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David
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David,
The thing about Columbus is that there's no way you would get the E-W rail line along broad until you demonstrate to the taxpayers that a rail line can be successful in Columbus. The only place I can see a line being successful right out of the box is N-S along High St. Once that line is in place and thriving, you can execute phase two to link the city E-W.
In other words, lets do it the easy way - reinforce the same patterns of development. That's what people have confidence in. It's the easiest thing to sell. It makes me sick lol True urban link? There's already great bus service. Why can't people just learn to read a bus schedule?
Unless things have changed since I was there (probably have a bit) great bus service is the last thing Columbus has. I believe it was ranked the worst out of 30 major cities in the U.S. I remember having to walk home from downtown on Sundays because the buses stopped running at 7pm!!! Great bus service is not something someone who rides the bus often (at least used to) would say about COTA. So many memories of waiting an hour for a bus or more and then the bus only going kind of where you're going... good luck trying to get out to the suburbs at any time other than the morning or evening commute etc...
Columbus public transportation = horrible. At least that's what it was like in 2003... maybe it's changed -
EDIT: It just occurred to me you were talking about OSU <-> Downtown on high street... Yeah, it's better service - about typical of any normal route in most other cities, but it still stopped running on Sunday nights and I still remember it being absolutely crammed most of the time.
Yeah, I was talking about High St. I don't find the buses to be too packed on that route. High St. seems to have the best bus service. Only thing I would complain about is weekends but I think they still run every 20-35 minutes during the day. Most other routes, especially in the suburbs, are a nightmare.
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treesketcher
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David, what's easy about starting local passenger rail from scratch? To make a change this massive, you have to start with something that have the best chance of working. Once its proven, then it can be expanded. If we start an east-west line and it has terrible ridership...there will be no chance of getting federal money for other streetcar/lrt projects.
Again, i agree with you that an east-west line would be fantastic, but we gotta start with something that will work.
Back to Columbus Commons, I think as the design of the park is developed further, it will be better to understand the designer's vision. Its always tough to spit out renderings and not have a chance to discuss the intent behind them, as was the case with this last set of drawings. I drove by the site today, the mall structure is almost 1/3 gone. Very cool to watch the demolition.
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WalkerEvans
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Unless things have changed since I was there (probably have a bit) great bus service is the last thing Columbus has. Actually, Bill Lhota has done a pretty bang up job of stabilizing the bus system in the last few years. I don't know if I'd say we have a "great" bus system, but it's vastly improved over what it was just five or six years ago. New routes have been added. Ridership is constantly climbing. Budget is in the black. Lhota has made a lot of small fine-tuning changes that have conservatively improved COTA as a whole.
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LAsam
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Wow, interesting seeing those demo shots. I'm happy thinking about the future possibilities for this site, but sad thinking a building from my childhood is gone.
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rider
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It looks like Franklin County might provide the final $3 million for the $20 million estimated by Capitol South to build the Columbus Commons park. Earlier this month Metro Parks pledged $2 million. The remaining $15 million is coming from Capitol South's funding sources. County will offer $3M to preserve 6-acre park at City Center
Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 4:01 PM
By Barbara Carmen, The Columbus DispatchSix acres in the middle of Downtown will remain parkland forever under a deal in which Franklin County commissioners would provide the last dollars needed to redevelop the site of the City Center mall. Franklin County commissioners are expected to vote next week to invest $3 million in the Columbus Commons project. Those tax dollars, however, come with strings: A conservation easement would protect a portion of the site that is planned for a park. Full story at http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/10/27/27citycenter.html?sid=101
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Columbusite
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Beautiful (aside from the wasted materials).
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David
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I think it's sad. Our parents talk about how when they were little, what they remember the most during the holidays were the lights downtown and all of the old department stores that went all out, investing in decorations and having a Santa Claus. I remember the City Center mall during christmas - it was pretty awesome. The vastness of the atrium was incredible and there were lights and decorations hanging from it. You could see the elevators moving up and down. They would have Santa Claus and concerts and stuff at the bottom. All of that is officially gone now.
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c-dub
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Ahh yes... Let's look at the positives... With that monstrosity gone, this park will open up new angles of the skyline with some impressive new views. It's going to make some of the surrounding buildings appear taller. I for one can't wait for the City Center to be gone forever!
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WalkerEvans
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All of that is officially gone now. All of that was officially gone a long time ago.
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rider
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County commissioners postpone vote on Downtown park funds
Tuesday, November 3, 2009 - 11:39 AM
By Barbara Carmen, The Columbus DispatchA $3 million deal, the last funds needed to build a 6-acre park and homes and businesses atop the old City Center Mall site, hit a snag today. Franklin County commissioners postponed their vote on the grant for a week. The prosecutor's office, busy with a murder trial, is still finishing its required review of the contract. Full story at http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/11/03/city_center_park_web.html?sid=101
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CBC
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Holy cow. Wow. That is all I have to say. Goodbye City Center for better or worse...
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ColDayMan
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Amazing how large a hole that place really was.
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J.Remy
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Wow, I can't believe that place is almost gone. Just amazing... hard to believe. It's so weird to see something like that being torn down, a place that I remember when it first opened (although I was quite young) and roamed its floors. It's strange...
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