Topic: Hipsters

[Ram23]

^You sure you weren't in Mt. Adams?

Mt. Adams = OTR.  There really isn't much hipster left south of about 13th street on a weekend. That story sounds like quite the bro-fest.

[GCrites80s]

Hipsters are basically just poseurs anyway. Old punks, metalheads and skaters have seen it all before.

[jmecklenborg]

Yeah but somehow the poser has been elevated above the authentic artist or fan.  The fuss necessary to assemble all the knowlege of a critic but then rather than writing a critique for a publication simply wearing stupid clothes and copping an attitude is in fact the art.   

[C-Dawg]

honestly, what is the obsession with 'hipsters' - it's just a style fad or something

Again, it's not about style. It's about acting like a teenager until your 30's.

[C-Dawg]

Yeah but somehow the poser has been elevated above the authentic artist or fan.  The fuss necessary to assemble all the knowlege of a critic but then rather than writing a critique for a publication simply wearing stupid clothes and copping an attitude is in fact the art.   

This is true. We live in a culture where poser is more respectable (in some circles) than having real talent. This crosses across a lot of mediums.

[C-Dawg]

^You sure you weren't in Mt. Adams?

Mt. Adams = OTR.  There really isn't much hipster left south of about 13th street on a weekend. That story sounds like quite the bro-fest.

Mission, no bros, just a lot of douchebags, especially female douchebags.

[GCrites80s]

Yeah but somehow the poser has been elevated above the authentic artist or fan.  The fuss necessary to assemble all the knowlege of a critic but then rather than writing a critique for a publication simply wearing stupid clothes and copping an attitude is in fact the art.   

This is true. We live in a culture where poser is more respectable (in some circles) than having real talent. This crosses across a lot of mediums.

Like people telling me I should listen to Puff Daddy's music because he's a good businessman.

[MyTwoSense]

So that I can better understand you're answer,  where do you get this information?  Hipsters live in choice neighborhoods?  What is your definition of a choice neighborhood?   retire before 30??  Hell, before you can retire you need to have a job!

Mission District, which has become one of the most expensive/competitive places for housing in the United States. You don't need a job if you have a trust fund and a good portfolio manager. I didn't think the retired under 30 crowd existed, but lord it does!

I doubt most Midwestern hipsters live in choice neighborhoods (outside Chicago's Wicker Park), at least not in big numbers. Though does OTR have a good number of hipsters? That's a choice neighborhood by Ohio standards. Cincinnati is the next Oakland.

I love how you danced around my question and didn't answer it.  I didn't honestly think you could answer it.  Mission District?  Child, boo!!   Again, what is your definition of a "choice neighborhood"?   Are you confusing the overall popularity of a neighborhood and quantifying that as a hipster neighborhood??  Who has a trust fund?  Most people I know or that we've profiled as "hipsters" are broke, living pay check to pay check, have several room mates and are barely getting by.

Who are this people with trust fund managers who retired under 30?

OTR is a "choice" neighborhood?  Cincinnati is the next Oakland?  What are you smoking and where do you get this information? Forbes??

[ryanlammi]

^To a certain extent, OTR is a choice neighborhood. Apartments are gobbled up much faster than they can be produced. At the same time, the rents are typically not outrageous and there are still a lot of low income housing, so it is an interesting dynamic right now.

Also, I would say certain sections/bars in OTR are similar to Mt. Adams, but by no means all of it. Neons and Japps on the weekends definitely resemble Mt. Adams. Lackman is just too busy to actually go to on weekends because it's so small. I find solace in MOTR and the occasional visit to Drinkery (only when it's completely dead and I can just hang out with friends and talk to the bartenders). Of course there is the occasional bad experience (Pedal Wagon crowd, anyone?) at MOTR, but it's usually fun.

[Rustbelter]

I have a lot of problems whenever I go to hipster venues. People come up and start getting in my face, and girls act ridiculous around me. Just last weekend at a terrible hipster bar, a girl interrupted me while I was talking to another girl, called me an asshole, and then started flirting with me. Only hipsters do this crap. I guess being the only masculine guy in the bar throws them off.

Her hipster guy friend comes up to me after a big argument with her that ended in a slapping match (she was clearly getting off on this like 50 Shades of Grey), and says "she just needs to get laid." Hipster game is terrible. It does more to turn you off than anything else.

In Chicago the hipster bars are usually pretty chill, although there are a couple that can be a bit much. The most annoying bars in Chicago are by far the fratty/bro bars in Lincoln Park and Lakeview or the scenester bars in River North. Never really had any issues with annoying hipsters in Cleveland either.

[C-Dawg]

^San Francisco hipsters are a very different breed. A housing shortage and skyrocketing rent creates a very different dynamic. The average rent for an apartment in San Francisco's Mission District is nearly $3,000 a month and rising fast. These are wealthier, more cut-throat hipsters and you're starting to see it in the bars. I've noticed a change just in the past six months. The tech boom is creating a lot of fast money, and you need real money to live in the Mission if you're coming from out of state. This isn't a place for paycheck-to-paycheck people. How many working class people can afford that rent?

http://sf.curbed.com/archives/2012/05/14/the_bad_news_as_suspected_rental_rates_have_increased_dramatically_over_the_past_year.php

Chicago seems much lower-key, and probably less douchey. I don't know enough Chicago hipsters to have a good sample size, but the ones I have met have been OK...not people I'd drink with, but certainly not people I'd get in a fight with.

[C-Dawg]

OTR is a "choice" neighborhood?  Cincinnati is the next Oakland?  What are you smoking and where do you get this information? Forbes??

Hey, the Forbes hipster list was accurate. It's no Businessweek, but that magazine does a lot of good work!

[MyTwoSense]

^San Francisco hipsters are a very different breed. A housing shortage and skyrocketing rent creates a very different dynamic. The average rent for an apartment in San Francisco's Mission District is nearly $3,000 a month and rising fast. These are wealthier, more cut-throat hipsters and you're starting to see it in the bars. I've noticed a change just in the past six months. The tech boom is creating a lot of fast money, and you need real money to live in the Mission if you're coming from out of state. This isn't a place for paycheck-to-paycheck people. How many working class people can afford that rent?

http://sf.curbed.com/archives/2012/05/14/the_bad_news_as_suspected_rental_rates_have_increased_dramatically_over_the_past_year.php

Chicago seems much lower-key, and probably less douchey. I don't know enough Chicago hipsters to have a good sample size, but the ones I have met have been OK...not people I'd drink with, but certainly not people I'd get in a fight with.

Speaking from personal experience??   This methodology is flawed as they do not include square footage or bedrooms.  Nor the number of occupants in each unit.

Like most cities, people who are not earning a lot of money, tend to have roommates so they can live in suppossed/alleged hip neighborhoods, because they cannot afford to live alone.

OTR is a "choice" neighborhood?  Cincinnati is the next Oakland?  What are you smoking and where do you get this information? Forbes??

Hey, the Forbes hipster list was accurate. It's no Businessweek, but that magazine does a lot of good work!

Of course, you, would think that.  Yet it still proves nothing!

Would you like more rope dear?

[C-Dawg]

Speaking from personal experience??   This methodology is flawed as they do not include square footage or bedrooms.  Nor the number of occupants in each unit.

Like most cities, people who are not earning a lot of money, tend to have roommates so they can live in suppossed/alleged hip neighborhoods, because they cannot afford to live alone.

Talk to people who live there, talk to brokers, and talk to real estate agents. I don't know anyone in SF who lives by themselves anymore. People are paying $1000 a month to rent living room couches in the Mission. Those numbers are extremely low now (that was Q1 2012, which was before the big spike last summer). Listing prices are base prices. Bidding takes place since it's so competitive in SF. A 2-bd listed at $3000 a month can easily end up $4000-$6000 a month after open houses with hundreds of applicants. The summer was a bloodbath, and every one of these neighborhoods is much higher than this now. Open bedrooms in four-bedroom places are now being listed around $1500 a piece (and this is college-style shared living at best), and landlords lie about places being in the Mission (some as far as two miles away) since it's that desirable to these kids. It's worse than Noe Valley now, and pushing Castro territory:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3385194936.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3405697658.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3422229487.html (not even in the Mission)
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3412113255.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3426306302.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3427597300.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3421787894.html (not even in the Mission)
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3423773196.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3414893939.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3410111883.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3429769496.html (seven bedrooms and still insane)
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3414918853.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3423505486.html

You think you can rent there without money? It doesn't matter how many roommates these kids have, they're still paying out the teeth. That listing for seven bedrooms still had each occupant paying over $1200 a month. And of course, the best way to make money in SF is to rent to hipsters in the Mission! Some hipsters do have a ton of money, whether from a huge inheritance, trust fund, smart investment in a start-up, early equity from facebook, etc., etc. It's certainly possible to retire by 30 if you get lucky and play the cards right. That's kind of the Bay Area dream. This is the land of fast money.

*This has spilled over into Oakland now which is rapidly gentrifying and will be unrecognizable in five years. Things change fast in the Bay, much faster than in other metro areas:

http://www.sfgate.com/realestate/article/Rents-rise-in-S-F-Oakland-San-Jose-3961019.php

Cincinnati is the next Oakland 2008, before the big social media boom. It of course won't heat up like Oakland 2012.

[jmecklenborg]

Reverting back to an earlier explanation I had for the insidious rise of hipsterdom...it's the gradual fading of the fallout of the Vietnam War.  Again, if you were my age (and not much younger), and grew up in an area (i.e. not a wealthy area) where the young men were killed and injured in large numbers, the fallout from Vietnam was a big part of growing up.  I think we had a very strong sense as boys that we would be drafted for some future war and if we were drafted we would very likely be killed.  We had some echo of that seriousness that hung over our upbringings, even though the draft never returned.  But by 1990 or so people weren't talking about Vietnam anymore so if you were born from about 1985 onward it probably wasn't part of your upbringing.  The draft never returned with the Iraq war and the number of fatalities and serious injuries was relatively low.  Also, without the return of the draft, the military drew a larger part of its force from lower income people, meaning the circa-2005 college-educated hipster likely had minimal contact with people who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. 

This interview with Iggy Pop and The Stooges spends some time talking about the effect the Vietnam War had on the evolution of rock & roll so far as it motivated anyone who believed in music to push that much harder:

The Henry Rollins Show S02 E04 part 1 of 2

And here it is, the greatest rock record of the Vietnam era:

The Stooges- Fun House [Full Album]

This album is all about in the face of the lottery of the draft attempting to fool yourself that turning to the lottery of drug abuse is somehow a nobler way to go out. 

[MyTwoSense]

Speaking from personal experience??   This methodology is flawed as they do not include square footage or bedrooms.  Nor the number of occupants in each unit.

Like most cities, people who are not earning a lot of money, tend to have roommates so they can live in suppossed/alleged hip neighborhoods, because they cannot afford to live alone.

Talk to people who live there, talk to brokers, and talk to real estate agents. I don't know anyone in SF who lives by themselves anymore. People are paying $1000 a month to rent living room couches in the Mission. Those numbers are extremely low now (that was Q1 2012, which was before the big spike last summer). Listing prices are base prices. Bidding takes place since it's so competitive in SF. A 2-bd listed at $3000 a month can easily end up $4000-$6000 a month after open houses with hundreds of applicants. The summer was a bloodbath, and every one of these neighborhoods is much higher than this now. Open bedrooms in four-bedroom places are now being listed around $1500 a piece (and this is college-style shared living at best), and landlords lie about places being in the Mission (some as far as two miles away) since it's that desirable to these kids. It's worse than Noe Valley now, and pushing Castro territory:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3385194936.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3405697658.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3422229487.html (not even in the Mission)
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3412113255.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3426306302.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3427597300.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3421787894.html (not even in the Mission)
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3423773196.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3414893939.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3410111883.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3429769496.html (seven bedrooms and still insane)
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3414918853.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/3423505486.html

You think you can rent there without money? It doesn't matter how many roommates these kids have, they're still paying out the teeth. That listing for seven bedrooms still had each occupant paying over $1200 a month. And of course, the best way to make money in SF is to rent to hipsters in the Mission! Some hipsters do have a ton of money, whether from a huge inheritance, trust fund, smart investment in a start-up, early equity from facebook, etc., etc. It's certainly possible to retire by 30 if you get lucky and play the cards right. That's kind of the Bay Area dream. This is the land of fast money.

*This has spilled over into Oakland now which is rapidly gentrifying and will be unrecognizable in five years. Things change fast in the Bay, much faster than in other metro areas:

http://www.sfgate.com/realestate/article/Rents-rise-in-S-F-Oakland-San-Jose-3961019.php

Cincinnati is the next Oakland 2008, before the big social media boom. It of course won't heat up like Oakland 2012.

Le Sigh.  Once again you do not answer my direct question.  You may want to run for Republican office in the near future, 'cause you certainly know how to avoid a question.

Honey, you've proved my point.  Due to the economy, jobs and personal financial situations, people cannot afford to live alone in popular urban neighborhoods.  However, that in no way indicates who types of people live in those neighborhoods.

Posting a Craigslist ad proves nothing, show me leases!  Just like a house, a landlord can ask for whatever, that doesn't guarantee that is the final rental price.

So what proof do you have that this neighborhood is hipster central and that the majority living here are hipsters?

Based on the information you've provided I highly doubt that those people living in an established neighborhood are hipsters or the mythical hipsters with trust funds are living in choice neighborhoods.

[MyTwoSense]

The Evolution of the Hipster

[ColDayMan]

I bet you ♣ baby seals.

[MyTwoSense]

I bet you ♣ baby seals.

I'm not heartless.  It was only one.......

[JYP]

Hunting game...ironically:

Hipsters Who Hunt

I think the evolution of the new lefty urban hunter goes something like this:

2006: Reads Michael Pollan’s The Omnivore’s Dilemma, about the ickyness of the industrial food complex. Starts shopping at a farmer’s market.
2008: Puts in own vegetable garden. Tries to go vegetarian but falls off the wagon.
2009: Decides to only eat “happy meat” that has been treated humanely.
2010: Gets a chicken coop and a flock of chickens.
2011: Dabbles in backyard butchery of chickens. Reads that Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg decided to only eat meat he killed himself for a year.
2012: Gets a hunting permit, thinking “how hard can it be? I already totally dominate Big Buck Hunter at the bar.”

Hunting is undeniably in vogue among the bearded, bicycle-riding, locavore set. The new trend might even be partly behind a recent 9 percent increase from 2006 to 2011 in the number of hunters in the United States after years of decline. Many of these new hunters are taking up the activity for ethical and environmental reasons.

[jmecklenborg]

*I buy eggs from a coworker, who has a coop full of chickens who are fed refuse from a sports bar.

[MyTwoSense]

Hunting game...ironically:

Hipsters Who Hunt

I think the evolution of the new lefty urban hunter goes something like this:

2006: Reads Michael Pollan’s The Omnivore’s Dilemma, about the ickyness of the industrial food complex. Starts shopping at a farmer’s market.
2008: Puts in own vegetable garden. Tries to go vegetarian but falls off the wagon.
2009: Decides to only eat “happy meat” that has been treated humanely.
2010: Gets a chicken coop and a flock of chickens.
2011: Dabbles in backyard butchery of chickens. Reads that Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg decided to only eat meat he killed himself for a year.
2012: Gets a hunting permit, thinking “how hard can it be? I already totally dominate Big Buck Hunter at the bar.”

Hunting is undeniably in vogue among the bearded, bicycle-riding, locavore set. The new trend might even be partly behind a recent 9 percent increase from 2006 to 2011 in the number of hunters in the United States after years of decline. Many of these new hunters are taking up the activity for ethical and environmental reasons.

[taestell]

Reminder that it's 2012 and at this point "hipster" refers to practically anyone in their 20s who doesn't listen to Phish/Michael Buble/ICP.

https://twitter.com/donglord69/status/178698557002498048

(via CincyCapell)

[Quimbob]

"lots of hipsters are essentially downwardly mobile young people who are putting themselves to some practical use, however small or marginal, instead of sitting around getting obese."

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/jacobs/exemplary-hipsters/

[jdm00]

Evolution of the Hipster

[TBideon]

Do hipsters consider the term to be pejorative?  Frankly I like hipsters. Between them and the gays, a lot of rough neighborhoods are evolving into something more attractive and safe. I'll take skinny jeans over saggy pants and man-scarves over due-rags any day of the week

[natininja]

The hipster movement is dead.

[GCrites80s]

Once these seemingly difficult-to-pin-down-at-first cultural phenomenons have been given official labels their days are often numbered.

[jmecklenborg]

So I was at the UDF on Hudson at Indianola last night at 3am.  I'm buying a Mountain Dew and I'm standing behind a hipster.  Suddenly he turns and demands to buy the Mountain Dew for me. 

The exchange goes something like this:

Hipster: Oh, and let me buy this guy's drink (to the cashier)

Me: Well then I'm going to pay you (I lay a $1 bill on the counter and push it toward the hipster)

Hipster: No, I insist.  By the way, have you ever seen $1 million dollars?

Me: [brief pause] Not since grade school.


I wasn't in any mood to play games at 3am.  Looking back, I should have said no not since I quit the Klan or no not since I paid your mom. 

Anyway I find it disturbing that these asshole hipsters have now branched their whole thing out into realms stretching far beyond music and fashion.  They've always been a-holes when you meet them on their own turf but now they've branched out into new realms like woodworking and now ironically buying snacks for people at gas stations. 

[c3vin]

^^

da faq?  sounds like a drunk college kid was feeling generous.  why not accept?

[TBideon]

I don't think buying someone's drink qualifies that person as a hipster. Frankly I would be more concerned with your unwarranted fury at the situation

[surfohio]

So I was at the UDF on Hudson at Indianola last night at 3am.  I'm buying a Mountain Dew and I'm standing behind a hipster.  Suddenly he turns and demands to buy the Mountain Dew for me. 

The exchange goes something like this:

Hipster: Oh, and let me buy this guy's drink (to the cashier)

Me: Well then I'm going to pay you (I lay a $1 bill on the counter and push it toward the hipster)

Hipster: No, I insist.  By the way, have you ever seen $1 million dollars?

Me: [brief pause] Not since grade school.


I wasn't in any mood to play games at 3am.  Looking back, I should have said no not since I quit the Klan or no not since I paid your mom. 

Anyway I find it disturbing that these asshole hipsters have now branched their whole thing out into realms stretching far beyond music and fashion.  They've always been a-holes when you meet them on their own turf but now they've branched out into new realms like woodworking and now ironically buying snacks for people at gas stations. 

Paid the guys mom?? Why in the world would you escalate this guys gesture into a fighting situation?

[jmecklenborg]

Okay I'm a bit surprised by people's response to my post.  I don't see how people don't recognize the old bullying game where the bully extends some gesture of goodwill to set up the person they're about to humiliate.  On the playground the jock would for example sarcastically pass the football to the dweeb, setting him up for a game of keep-away.  This hipster thing is all the same game, but the hipster always trusts that you're not going to actually clock him...

...or in this case her (skip to 1:20):

Henry Rollins vs Hipsters

Perhaps Henry Rollins took the bait just for the sake of creating a scene for the documentary, but I think he was genuinely offended by the nonsense.  It does get especially irritating when the person is 10 years younger than you, but again, the moment you engage them, they win and you lose. 

[MyTwoSense]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsND7aibvOQ

[gottaplan]

Do hipsters consider the term to be pejorative?  Frankly I like hipsters. Between them and the gays, a lot of rough neighborhoods are evolving into something more attractive and safe. I'll take skinny jeans over saggy pants and man-scarves over due-rags any day of the week

x1000