Topic: Cleveland - Cudell/West Boulevard developments

[bumsquare]

This has been moved over to the West Blvd. thread.  This is definitely not Detroit Shoreway.

[gottaplan]

Im not getting too excited about this project.  I assume the same slum landlords will be running the show and it wont help the neighborhood much

It's a very rare slum landlord who will invest millions of dollars and navigate the expensive/time consuming/difficult LIHTC and Historic Preservation Tax Credit programs to renovate a building.

It's free money from the government in the form of tax credits so spending a little money upfront to get the credits means the project will be a cash cow for at least another 15 yrs as low income rentals.  And using Pella windows doesn't mean jack squat either.

The Italian restaurant on the corner hasn't been vacant that long, maybe a year & half.  It was on the market for sale prior to that but was open & active up until 3 yrs ago.  I'm sure the owner got zero interest considering it's surrounded by low income apartments.  It's too bad, a friend of mine used to be chef there.

There was actually a planning study done to narrow Detroit down in that very area to make it easier for pedestrians to cross.  I think it was posted somewhere on the City planning website under neighborhood plans...

[X]

It's free money....if you take the time and have the not inconsiderable expertise to get it.  I don't know many slum landlords that do.  Completing the LIHTC application process isn't like filling out an application for a summer job, the application ends up being 2 inches thick by the time one is completed (to give some sense of the complexity and amount of work that has to be done).  It certainly could be a slum landlord who is doing this, but I doubt it.  So does anyone actually know anything about the people who are redeveloping this property?  Or are we all just assuming?

[gottaplan]

I already noted up thread that the developer is the Ferchill group, I've worked with them before and they are no slum landlord, nor are they amateurs in anyway.  I know what it takes to apply for LIHTC's and historic tax credits and Ferchill has plenty of accountants and architects and other experienced professionals who can handle it.

I never made a comment about the project being owned or managed by a slum landlord, but just that it was disappointing the entire site was going back as low income housing after the renovation. 

[KJP]

This has been moved over to the West Blvd. thread.  This is definitely not Detroit Shoreway.

The redevelopment at 8700 Detroit Ave is actually Cudell -- barely. If it was one block east, it would be in Detroit-Shoreway.....

http://urban.csuohio.edu/nodis/maps/SPAs/Detroit_Shoreway_Streets.pdf

[X]

I never made a comment about the project being owned or managed by a slum landlord, but just that it was disappointing the entire site was going back as low income housing after the renovation. 

Fair enough.  Others did say "slum landlord".

[Clueless,Ohio]

This has been moved over to the West Blvd. thread.  This is definitely not Detroit Shoreway.

I asked yesterday but got no takers. Im impressed that you definitely know (applaud)... 'cause it is literally straddling the border.
JMO though...the part of Franklin that accesses these terrace rows seems like the D-S Franklin. I think RR tracks(?) cut Franklin in two (near W. 85th).

[bumsquare]

Ooh, that's my mistake, I thought we were just talking about the ones at West Boulevard.

[Clueless,Ohio]

Some of the interesting apts and homes on W. 101st near the Boulevard terrace rows

[KJP]

I know this sounds like I'm over-analyzing, but when an apartment building still has a glass door that's either A. still intact, or B. hasn't been replaced by a steel door, the neighborhood can't be that bad.

[MyTwoSense]

I know this sounds like I'm over-analyzing, but when an apartment building still has a glass door that's either A. still intact, or B. hasn't been replaced by a steel door, the neighborhood can't be that bad.

.....Nor are there any bars on the first floor windows.

[craftygrl5]

I am thankfull for these improvements. I grew up in these apartments. Right on Madison Ave. At the time I was living there 20+ years ago we had a sense "community" but as everyone grew up and moved on the place changed. People forgot to take pride in where they lived. No matter if you were poor or had money the Boulevard was always nice. But within the last 10-15 years the place had gone down. I know of one building that was so riddle with mold that they had to condemn it. I hope this can bring some "life" to the area. Even though I have been gone from the area for MANY years I will always have fond memories of living in that neighborhood.

[surfohio]

I am thankfull for these improvements. I grew up in these apartments. Right on Madison Ave. At the time I was living there 20+ years ago we had a sense "community" but as everyone grew up and moved on the place changed. People forgot to take pride in where they lived. No matter if you were poor or had money the Boulevard was always nice. But within the last 10-15 years the place had gone down. I know of one building that was so riddle with mold that they had to condemn it. I hope this can bring some "life" to the area. Even though I have been gone from the area for MANY years I will always have fond memories of living in that neighborhood.

THanks for your insights on the neighborhood. And welcome to the forum.

[KJP]

Welcome craftygrl5. Hope you keep on postin' here!

[Sjwillsey2222]

Good morning to all. I've followed urban Ohio for some time and finally joined the fray.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but the renovation of the building to the west of the former Palazzo restaurant right at the corner or Berea road and Detroit is seeing some results. On the street level, one of the storefronts that was previously sealed up is now restored with pane glass and is visible inside to be a laundromat.

Encouraging sign for the neighborhood.

[surfohio]

Good morning to all. I've followed urban Ohio for some time and finally joined the fray.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but the renovation of the building to the west of the former Palazzo restaurant right at the corner or Berea road and Detroit is seeing some results. On the street level, one of the storefronts that was previously sealed up is now restored with pane glass and is visible inside to be a laundromat.

Encouraging sign for the neighborhood.

It's very cool to see progress, I especially like the balcony/deck they installed.

Welcome to the forum!!

[KJP]

Welcome, Sjwillsey2222!

[ragarcia]

I've been biking through this area all summer long and it feels as an up and coming low income neighborhood with serious potential.

I even took my daughter to the Cuddell Recreation Center's pool and water park.

This neighborhood is very diverse (white, black, Hispanic) and everyone I've run into so far has been very nice and courteous.

I'm glad they are redoing these buildings and I hope for even more to happen in the neighborhood.

[WestBLVD]

I think the city should ask itself if Detroit Ave really needs to be seven (!!) lanes wide ride there.

This area is unfortunately a huge cut through at rush hour. Because the innerbelt backs up daily, many commuters take I-90 to 2 and then go up West Blvd and reconnect to 90 West and vice versa for the opposite commute. You've got a turn lane for West Blvd (that regularly is so long that it takes up the second lane), and then another turn lane for Berea Road, then two through lanes that immediately go to one at the Chicle building.

Sadly Cleveland just recently EXPANDED West Blvd northbound to 2 lanes a few weeks ago north of Detroit. They did this by removing street parking, shrinking a turn lane, and repainting stripes.

The increased cut through traffic the past 2 years has been unreal. But there's always been problem for pedestrians trying to cross at both West Blvd/Detroit intersections to get to the rapid stop. Anytime you've got a pedestrian walkway crossing a multi-lane turn you're going to get safety issues. Currently, you can only cross Detroit on the west side of West Blvd from the rapid stop, but many people will still try to cross on the east side where there are no markings.

The terrace rowhouse rehabs look really great, but I wonder how long the facades will be kept up. I'm hoping some attractive landscaping in the spring time will help. This neighborhood anywhere else would be insanely different. You have direct rail access to downtown Cleveland (11 mins) Direct access to Hopkins Airport (15 mins) direct access to Lake Erie and Edgewater Park, yes that's just 5 blocks to the north without any impediments! You have a ton of medium to high density apartments (half vacant) surrounding a rapid stop. You have a historic commercial strip. You have gorgeous tree lined streets with beautiful homes. Any 5 story or taller apartment building would have Lake Erie views here as it sits just on the secondary lake edge bluff.

Theoretically this should be one of the most desirable neighborhoods in Cleveland and if this were any other large city it would be. Yet it blows my mind how this is arguably the worst section of Detroit Avenue, and the neighborhood is not on Cleveland's long list of up an coming areas.

However, I would say that if we were to have a sudden energy crisis, that could be a huge game changer for the neighborhood. It has all the elements needed that make a neighborhood successful, it's just severely lacking investment. A sudden jolt in the price of oil and rest assured, this will be one of the first areas in Cleveland to see development, rehabs, and an influx of new residents as a sound infrastructure is already in place.

[Mov2Ohio]

I wonder if when the second Innerbelt bridge is built and the Innerbelt trench widened, if it will reduce traffic here as well, since that project is meant to reduce congestion amongst other things.

[Cleburger]

It most definitely will.  Lots of people using West Blvd to cut from 90 to the Shoreway.   Once the Innerbelt is done the reduction in traffic should be very noticeable, which further supports the argument to reduce it to a boulevard and get rid of the freeway section.

[KJP]

Well said, WestBLVD. Alas, I suspect the cut-through traffic is what is holding back that neighborhood. Even before the Inner Belt construction, many West Park residents heading to downtown came this way, via Triskett-Berea-Detroit-West Blvd-Baltic-Shoreway. A little traffic calming on Detroit Avenue in the vicinity of the Rapid station could do wonders. Even a landscaped median like on Bagley Road near Baldwin-Wallace University in Berea would help a lot.

[clvlndr]

^^^WestBLVD, I totally agree with you and, as Bill Clinton would say: feel your pain.  It is frustrating why a neighborhood with so many pluses has basically been left to go to seed... The good news, of course, is that developers like the Marouses are nibbling at the edges; rehabbing these beautiful old row/terrace buildings in the area (including those next to the Rapid tracks on the opposite side of the lot where the demolished factory was).  You've got Chicle on the other side of the RR tracks, with Edgewater, on one flank and Detroit Shoreway on the other.  You'd have to believe spillover is going to positively affect Cudell at some point.

[jjames0408]

The apartment renovation at West and Madison looks great! There seems to slowly be more investment into the neighborhood, but as stated, the walkability can be terrible!

[gottaplan]

^the entire front side of this development is along Madison, which has excellent walkability.  Too bad it's all rundown storefronts & pawnshops....

The railroad tracks, both Norfolk Southern & the RTA tracks, really sever this neighborhood from the rest of the Edgewater area.  Going on the north side of the tracks by Baltic, you're back to solid single family homes and decent neighborhoods...

[DeanSheen]

^the entire front side of this development is along Madison, which has excellent walkability.  Too bad it's all rundown storefronts & pawnshops....

The railroad tracks, both Norfolk Southern & the RTA tracks, really sever this neighborhood from the rest of the Edgewater area.  Going on the north side of the tracks by Baltic, you're back to solid single family homes and decent neighborhoods...

Right but all that single family along the tracks between the tracks and Detroit could use a boost.

And that stretch of Detroit going East from West Blvd. to Lake (and south of Detroit) is no bargain either.

[Rustbelter]

The north Cudell area is definitely a rough spot that needs to be redeveloped in order for the west side neighborhoods to attain some cohesiveness. Right now this area is basically a pocket of ghetto between the the stable Lakewood/Edgewater area and the up-and-coming Detroit-Shoreway area.

I think it will take some larger scale developments with vision to turn this area around since people and businesses will have more confidence in numbers. Some Battery Park type infill in the triangle shaped area located south of Detroit, north of the RTA tracks, and west of 85th Street would be a good start.

Taking things a step further, I would really like to see a new Red Line stop at 85th Street just north of Madison along with new mixed used buildings and townhomes (built along and north of Madison between W 98th and W. 65th). This would be a great TOD spot! Unfortunately I doubt this is something I will ever see happen, nor is it something the City of Cleveland and the RTA would have the vision to proactively explore.

[BelievelandD1]

we should build up around the west/detroit intersection at the RTA stop, like other cities do.  Start with the easy transport spots.

[Rustbelter]

we should build up around the west/detroit intersection at the RTA stop, like other cities do.  Start with the easy transport spots.

I would like to see the West/Detroit area built up with TOD as well, but given the street width and traffic flow I don't think it will be an easy task or an easy sell to the community. Sadly this intersection has been screwed up by accommodating the automobile, and I'm sure there would be opposition to narrowing Detroit Ave and slowing down traffic. The West Blvd stop also does not flow very well into the surrounding neighborhoods due to the railroad and street layouts. I would bet the West Blvd stop was put there because it was a cheap place to put it and it could accommodated parking and bus connections.

W. 85th and Madison on the other hand blends right into an existing residential neighborhood and it would make for a very good pedestrian corridor (some commercial buildings already exist here). I know there is the cost of building a new Red Line stop here, but if you're going to restructure the West/Detroit intersection to make it TOD then it would also require a new station to make it more pedestrian oriented.

Anyway, I think both of these stations could be justifiable since they're about 1/2 mile apart which is pretty typical for urban rail station spacing. I'm not saying that the West Blvd station should go away.

[gottaplan]

^well not ALL over town.  Some places still need to sit in decline for a few decades till appropriate population and demand warrant redevelopment....  I think at least 1 main artery on the west side like Detroit would be supported though. 

[Cleburger]

Well, it isn't NOT a Cudell development. 

What do the intersections accomplish?  Allow people to cross the roadway?  They already can.  Allow people to drive to the Edgewater Park?  They already can.  Sounds like a lot of money and a lot of hassle to trim a couple minutes off those journeys.  What Cudell and Edgewater both need is direct investment in TOD.  The T- part of the TOD already exists in these neighborhoods, so we need to start targeting our spending on the -D instead.  Meanwhile there are other areas that need new transit or new roads or both.   Seems like the argument behind the shoreway converison amounts to "forget all that, because Boulevard Vibrant Greenspace!"

One word.  Livability.

KJP and some others have mentioned reducing the freight traffic and the eventual removal of the Main Ave Bridge.   All this would tie together to expand the green space and attract residents.   

I don't disagree with TOD or beautifying Detroit Ave, but they won't increase the livability of the area.   You don't see young people flocking to live along Euclid Ave (at least between E 30th and E 105). 

In a perfect world we'd do both.  But we all know Cleveland is far from a perfect world.

[MayDay]

The Shoreway Conversion and 'Sim City' posts have been removed; this thread is for discussion of *actual* construction (or at the very least, serious proposals) in Cudell/West Boulevard. If you want to create a thread about "Ideas to Improve Cudell/West Blvd", start one in the City Discussions section.

For those of you who have previously received warnings about taking threads off-topic, you're on thin ice. The holidays are approaching and my Mods would love to not have to spend every other minute pruning threads that have gone off-topic. Think before you post.

[Clueless,Ohio]

Project update.
Detroit Ave side of the Neil Terraces