Topic: Trayvon Martin

[StrapHanger]

^^^Yeah, I don't really get that.  I understand the critique that the president unnecessarily acknowledged the racial aspect (though I think the significance and intent are ambiguous), but the substance of his comments were pretty much in line with what a plurality of officials from all over the political spectrum have said "it's sad and should be investigated." Not sure I see that "hate" there.  I understand that the Zimmerman family is under a lot of stress, but it's unfortunate to hear him smear so broadly.

[Sherman Cahal]

a. @KillZimmerman
"#TRAYVONMARTIN RiP This Page Is 4 Da Ppl Who Believe Zimmerman Should Be Shot Dead In The Street The Same Way TRAYVON Was. No Justice No Peace #KillZimmerman"

b. Second Trayvon Martin Twitter feed identified
"The Daily Caller has identified a second Twitter handle that was used by the late Trayvon Martin during the last weeks of 2011.  Tweeting in December under the name “T33ZY TAUGHT M3,” Martin sent a message that read, “Plzz shoot da #mf dat lied 2 u!”"



"Additional searches via the same website yielded the Twitter handle “T33ZY TAUGHT M3,” whose activity spanned just one month and ended shortly before Martin began tweeting as “NO_LIMIT_NIGGA.” His Twitter activity under that newer screen name began with the tweet: “NEW NAME, NEW BACKGROUND, NEW TWEETCON, I MAKE CHANGS B4 NEW YEARS!”"

[ColDayMan]

And this has to do with him getting shot and killed...how? 

[Hts121]

It doesn't.  Sherman' reaching at straws at this point.

[willyboy]

a. @KillZimmerman
"#TRAYVONMARTIN RiP This Page Is 4 Da Ppl Who Believe Zimmerman Should Be Shot Dead In The Street The Same Way TRAYVON Was. No Justice No Peace #KillZimmerman"

b. Second Trayvon Martin Twitter feed identified
"The Daily Caller has identified a second Twitter handle that was used by the late Trayvon Martin during the last weeks of 2011.  Tweeting in December under the name “T33ZY TAUGHT M3,” Martin sent a message that read, “Plzz shoot da #mf dat lied 2 u!”"

"Additional searches via the same website yielded the Twitter handle “T33ZY TAUGHT M3,” whose activity spanned just one month and ended shortly before Martin began tweeting as “NO_LIMIT_NIGGA.” His Twitter activity under that newer screen name began with the tweet: “NEW NAME, NEW BACKGROUND, NEW TWEETCON, I MAKE CHANGS B4 NEW YEARS!”"

Well, if thats true he would have been in trouble soon enough, but likely with "fellow Niggas" 

[Sherman Cahal]

It doesn't.  Sherman' reaching at straws at this point.

Just like your continued reaches of conspiracy theories that Trayvon didn't provoke the incident. We don't know the facts, which is why it is important to at least know the backgrounds of both characters involved. You can't continue to glossy up Trayvon and trash Zimmerman so it fits your agenda - which seems to have a history of bashing conservatives on this forum.

Fact: Trayvon wasn't the honest-to-good teenager the media has made him out to be.
Fact: Zimmerman wasn't the honest-to-good adult that some have portrayed.
Fact: Zimmerman pulled the trigger and killed Trayvon.

Was it murder? Was it justifiable? We don't know.

[gottaplan]

The plot thickens.  Those tweets are pretty big character flaws for the departed

[MyTwoSense]

The plot thickens.  Those tweets are pretty big character flaws for the departed

Tweets mean crap.  You know how many people post things on the internet and they are all talk and no action.  You know, like the people here on UO!

[Sherman Cahal]

It gets people arrested.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/16/george-clooney-sudanese-protest-reactions_n_1353627.html (Apparently, the UK has no "freedom of speech" bit.)
http://thenextweb.com/socialmedia/2012/03/28/kuwaiti-twitter-user-arrested-for-blasphemous-tweets-as-mps-threaten-to-take-matters-into-their-own-hands/

[MyTwoSense]

It gets people arrested.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/16/george-clooney-sudanese-protest-reactions_n_1353627.html (Apparently, the UK has no "freedom of speech" bit.)
http://thenextweb.com/socialmedia/2012/03/28/kuwaiti-twitter-user-arrested-for-blasphemous-tweets-as-mps-threaten-to-take-matters-into-their-own-hands/

And that has nothing to do with Trayvon!  NOT  ONE DAMN THING!

[Sherman Cahal]

Neither does half of your posts.

What I replied with is that Tweets can result in action in some cases. In this specific case, it portrays the victim in a different light.

[subocincy]

(zz-zzz-z-zzz-z-z) Fight it out, lads, fight it out. (z-zz-z-zzz-z-z-zzz)...   

[gottaplan]

The plot thickens.  Those tweets are pretty big character flaws for the departed

Tweets mean crap.  You know how many people post things on the internet and they are all talk and no action.  You know, like the people here on UO!

This is relevant to Zimmerman's defense, assuming he's ever charged with a crime.  In addition to the "stand your ground law", a defense attorney now has these tweets to help the case Zimmerman was acting in self defense.  A defense attorney would have no problem getting a jury to believe Trayvon was a violent youth looking to act out

[Sherman Cahal]

And now it starts...
a. Parents of murdered British students criticise Barack Obama
"His failure to respond to three letters sent to the White House was because there was no "political value" and not worthy of a few minutes of his time. They spoke out as teenager Shawn Tyson began a life sentence after being found guilty of the murder of James Cooper and James Kouzaris last April."

"Mr Obama entered the controversy last week by saying if he had a son he would have looked like Martin. The alleged assailant in Martin's death has not been charged with any crime having claimed he was attacked first and used Florida's 'stand your ground' law to shoot in self defence."

The real reason Spike Lee apologized...
b. Trayvon Martin: Spike Lee settles with family forced to flee home
"Spike Lee has reached an agreement with the Florida couple forced to flee their home after the film director retweeted their home address and they fled to a hotel to avoid problems associated with the shooting of Trayvon Martin, it was announced Thursday."

Great...
c. Roseanne Barr Joins Twitter Vigilante Crew
"The comedian Roseanne Barr last night tweeted the home address of George Zimmerman’s parents to her 110,000-plus Twitter followers, only to delete the posting after “not fully understanding that it was private not public.”"

"Barr, who deleted her tweet in the face of criticism from some Twitter followers, noted that she first thought it “was good to let ppl know that no one can hide anymore.”  That stance quickly changed, with Barr reporting, “But vigilante-ism is what killed Trayvon. I don’t support that.”"

[sir2gees]

^^Won't be that simple when it comes to trial. Both sides will present testimoniy that will make each party look like the aggressor.

[gottaplan]

of course they will, but prosecution bears the burden.  Beyond shadow of a doubt. 

[MyTwoSense]

The plot thickens.  Those tweets are pretty big character flaws for the departed

Tweets mean crap.  You know how many people post things on the internet and they are all talk and no action.  You know, like the people here on UO!

This is relevant to Zimmerman's defense, assuming he's ever charged with a crime.  In addition to the "stand your ground law", a defense attorney now has these tweets to help the case Zimmerman was acting in self defense.  A defense attorney would have no problem getting a jury to believe Trayvon was a violent youth looking to act out

Well in that case, lets read the gringo's twitter feed(s).

Neither does half of your posts.

What I replied with is that Tweets can result in action in some cases. In this specific case, it portrays the victim in a different light.

Ms. Thing, please!  You claim not to be biased, yet you post and comments are the very opposite!

[subocincy]

(zz-z-zzz-zz-z-z-zzz-z-z-zzz-z-z-zz-zz-z)...

[E Rocc]

The plot thickens.  Those tweets are pretty big character flaws for the departed

Tweets mean crap.  You know how many people post things on the internet and they are all talk and no action.  You know, like the people here on UO!

This is relevant to Zimmerman's defense, assuming he's ever charged with a crime.  In addition to the "stand your ground law", a defense attorney now has these tweets to help the case Zimmerman was acting in self defense.  A defense attorney would have no problem getting a jury to believe Trayvon was a violent youth looking to act out

Well in that case, lets read the gringo's twitter feed(s).

How is it that Zimmerman can be declared "white" but not Obama?

[unusualfire]

A video of trayvons with voice will put this all to rest on who is calling for help. They have pictures of him from 9 days before this MURDER.

[Hts121]

How is it that Zimmerman can be declared "white" but not Obama?

Because a long time ago this Country decided that if you have any noticeable black heritage in your bloodline, then you are black with all that comes along with that characterization.  It just kind of stuck for whatever reason.

This is relevant to Zimmerman's defense, assuming he's ever charged with a crime.  In addition to the "stand your ground law", a defense attorney now has these tweets to help the case Zimmerman was acting in self defense.  A defense attorney would have no problem getting a jury to believe Trayvon was a violent youth looking to act out

You're assuming a judge would allow those tweets to be used as evidence in a court of law.  I don't think that would be allowed.  It is normally inadmissible character evidence with questionable relevance and has the potential for a prejudicial effect (see upthread).  Even if they were allowed in as purely circumstantial evidence concerning the character of the alleged victim, the defense might not find it to be good strategy since it would kick the door wide open for the prosecution to introduce character evidence on Zimmerman... something the prosecution would not otherwise be allowed to do.  This would include the domestic violence restraining order, the resisting arrest and battery on a police officer charge, and other possible past transgressions.   

[gottaplan]

again, prosecution bears the burden of proof, you know that, you're an attorney.

So why haven't any charges been brought against Zimmerman?  Not at a local level, not by the state attorney general, not even by the feds, despite the rallies, the protests, the online petitions....

[natininja]

I just love the smell of character assassination in the early morning.

Tweets mean crap.  You know how many people post things on the internet and they are all talk and no action.  You know, like the people here on UO!

Bingo.

Well in that case, lets read the gringo's twitter feed(s).

Of all people to be using racial slurs...

[MyTwoSense]

The plot thickens.  Those tweets are pretty big character flaws for the departed

Tweets mean crap.  You know how many people post things on the internet and they are all talk and no action.  You know, like the people here on UO!

This is relevant to Zimmerman's defense, assuming he's ever charged with a crime.  In addition to the "stand your ground law", a defense attorney now has these tweets to help the case Zimmerman was acting in self defense.  A defense attorney would have no problem getting a jury to believe Trayvon was a violent youth looking to act out

Well in that case, lets read the gringo's twitter feed(s).

How is it that Zimmerman can be declared "white" but not Obama?

Because Obama has clearly defined himself as black.

[unusualfire]

again, prosecution bears the burden of proof, you know that, you're an attorney.

So why haven't any charges been brought against Zimmerman?  Not at a local level, not by the state attorney general, not even by the feds, despite the rallies, the protests, the online petitions....

Because they don't want this to turn into another Anthony Casey case, but the police are well on their way. If it does go to trial, it will to be just witnesses ,which I don't really see any and forensic evidence. Zimmerman will never be put on the stand.

The smoking gun is the calling for help on the 911 tape. To me it sounded like a child(Trayvon). The FBI is analyzing it, because if he said Coon(which I heard). It becomes a federal case.

[sir2gees]

^^Charges haven't been brought because the Grand Jury doesn't convene until April 10. It's not that uncommon for someone to be charged months after an alleged crime. We know the lead detective wanted to charge him the next day, but the state's attorney wanted more time to investigate.

[gottaplan]

The smoking gun is the calling for help on the 911 tape.

I think the actual gun is a bigger piece of evidence.  If Trayvon's fingerprints are on the weapon at all, it would indicate a struggle for the weapon was underway and Zimmerman had to shoot to defend himself before getting shot.  Might explain why the fight didn't go on very long and Zimmerman wasn't totally pummelled also, if the fight quickly turned from throwing punches (10 seconds) to a struggle for the gun.

Another major issue not being discussed is the actual bullet wound entry point.  That could provide more insight about who was on top and how close the gun was when it fired.

[TBideon]

This whole 'coon' controversy - and jesus, who even uses that word besides Cartman - is so distracting and pointless. What, does that one word more than anything else make it a hate crime then? Im sure Al, Jessie and Spike are so hard at the thought of his saying it that they haven't peed downwards in days! Unbelievable that with all the tragedy in our country this is getting such attention.

The lessons of this whole tragedy are:

Black on black crimes equals the media and generel population don't care beyond a brief news blurb.

Black on white crimes equal prison time.

White on white crimes equal school shootings or  domestic disputes, with pundit discussions on mental illnesses and bullying.

White on black crime equals the race-baiting fury with the usual suspects racing to the nearest microphone before the facts come outside and their acting like this is an epidemic.

Hispanic white on black equals white on black,  i guess.

And finally, having a black president does not mean we're in some post racial society garbage.  Same crap, different year

[ColDayMan]

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/29/bloggers-cherry-pick-from-social-media-to-cast-trayvon-martin-as-a-menace/?hp

[Hts121]

^Wow.  No shame

This whole 'coon' controversy - and jesus, who even uses that word besides Cartman - is so distracting and pointless.

It's not distracting or pointless.  Look to Sherman's character assanation campaign for those traits.  It is relevant towards whether the Feds have a case on a hate crime charge.  It also offers support for the statement of certain neighbors who said that Zimmerman was, leading up to this event, advising them to racially profile black kids.  I think, however, the Feds would strongly prefer that the State of Florida step up to the plate and not get involved.  They probably don't want to try and support their jurisdiction over the matter solely through the use of that voice recording.

again, prosecution bears the burden of proof, you know that, you're an attorney.

So why haven't any charges been brought against Zimmerman?  Not at a local level, not by the state attorney general, not even by the feds, despite the rallies, the protests, the online petitions....

Again?  When did I ever deny that.  How does that refute anything in the post I had above yours?  The earth revolves around the sun, BTW... you know that.

Why haven't any charges been brought?  Well.... apparently, the prosecutor who handles that jurisdiction did not follow the advice of the lead detective who investigated.  But now, probably due to the issues with the police investigation that night, a special prosecutor has been appointed.  This is not uncommon in cases such as these.  She says that she hopes to make a decision without the grand jury on whether charges will be brought.  The grand jury would then still have to indict Zimmerman, which won't be difficult.  The difficult part of this process for the state will be obtaining a conviction.  Based on the evidence that we know right now (excluding all of the patently irrelevant crap being regurgitated from the blogosphere on here), I'd say Zimmerman probably has a better than 50% chance of being found not guilty in criminal court, at least on any murder/manslaughter charges.  That doesn't mean he shouldn't be charged. 

The key to Zimmerman's defense will be his testimomy.  No other witness saw how the fight started.  Trayvon's girlfriend is the only other one who heard how the incident started and the prosecution will surely use her testimony in front of the grand jury.  At trial, Zimmerman will have to waive his right to remain silent and open himself up to cross examination from the prosecution if he wants to tell his story.  Should be interesting.

BTW, new and recent pictures of Trayvon have been released.  I don't see them here.  Given, they don't portray him as a thug so they probably don't hold the sway the picture posters are looking for.

[Sherman Cahal]

Hey, if we cherry pick on Zimmerman who may have acted in self-defense (because no one knows the facts yet, and he has yet to be formally charged), then we can pick on Trayvon.

^Hts121: Mind sharing them then? Instead of being a jackass, maybe you can contribute with some articles and content that people can make their own informed decisions on.

[Hts121]

Sticks and stones, Sherminator.  Although I don't find them relevant one bit, I posted a few below that you might not find on the Daily Caller.  I will concede that in the picture of him holding the little girl, you can't see his hands and he might be making some gang signs under the table..... we just can't be certain.  These were taken right before he was killed.

[Sherman Cahal]

That's nice.

Here is something that may make much of Trayvon's history inmaterial. His email was hacked and the contents displayed. Some may be not as savory as others, but it can't be submitted for Zimmerman's defense because of how it was obtained.
Trayvon Martin's Email And Facebook Accounts Allegedly Hacked By White Supremacist
"A white supremacist hacker claims to have broken into Trayvon Martin's email and social networking accounts and posted his private messages online."

[Quimbob]

From Pat Buchanan's blog:
It's All About Race Now
http://buchanan.org/blog/its-all-about-race-now-5048
"It is not about finding the truth about what happened that night in Sanford when Zimmerman followed Trayvon in his SUV, and the two wound up in a fight, with Trayvon dead.
It is about the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict.
And it is about an irreconcilable conflict of visions about what the real America is in the year 2012."

[StrapHanger]

The lessons of this whole tragedy are:

I'm going to say that the number one lesson from this whole thing for me is that the SOP for neighborhood watch actually makes a lot of sense, and that's it's not just for the safety of volunteers.  Having armed amateurs actively performing police-like duties beyond surveillance on public or HOA rights of way, even if they are within their rights, is just asking for sad, unnecessary trouble, IMHO.