Topic: A Phone call with Edgewater Park

[BelievelandD1]

After about 30 submissions on the Ohio State Parks website, I finally got a phone call response form one of the park directors.  I have been wanting to challenge them about maintenance and ideas to better use the space.  I am slated to call him back on Thursday.  I am half tempted to recommend a town hall meeting about the park, but I dont know if they will grant that.  Nevertheless, I have an arsenal of things to ask this gentleman, and complain about...but I am curious if there are any questions from my UO family that you would like to specifically asked/addressed.  Feel free to let me know.

[hubz1124]

I spent last summer with a group called 'Friends of Edgewater' who cleans the beach/park on the first Saturday of every month. If you care about the park, I suggest you look into joining.

With that being said, at the beginning of every season there's inevitably a large swath of tree limbs and other crap that ends up on the beach front. Last year, instead of doing the right thing, which would have consisted of bringing in a team and picking up the larger items by hand and 'combing' the rest, they chose to bulldoze the entire beach. This tactic left the beach quite clean undoubtedly, but it also left it hard as a rock for the remainder of the season as the bulldozer removed the soft top layer of sand.

I would also ask why the park does not yet have a proper beach comber. What I referred to earlier as a comber is a jerry-ridged rake on a piece of farm equipment.

[surfohio]

After about 30 submissions on the Ohio State Parks website, I finally got a phone call response form one of the park directors.  I have been wanting to challenge them about maintenance and ideas to better use the space.  I am slated to call him back on Thursday.  I am half tempted to recommend a town hall meeting about the park, but I dont know if they will grant that.  Nevertheless, I have an arsenal of things to ask this gentleman, and complain about...but I am curious if there are any questions from my UO family that you would like to specifically asked/addressed.  Feel free to let me know.

Where to start...I love the place, but I've had a lot of negative experiences at Edgewater. This sounds like a great opportunity; it's so easy to complain to friends but having the chance to talk to an administrator is a good thing. Personally, I would ask:

1. Could a dune system be nurtured to a. improve sand quality b. limit sand loss and c. make the beach more natural, aesthetically pleasing? This works at Headlands, why not Edgewater?

2. Hubz is right, bulldozing the beach ruins it. To the best of my knowledge no other beach in America does this, for good reason.  Can we avoid this in the future?

3. Even with numerous volunteer cleanups, the beach is unacceptably trash-filled. Why can't the State keep the beach clean?

4. The presence of prostitutes and "cruisers" engaging in sex in the upper lot creates a very poor atmosphere. Why doesn't law enforcement crack down on this?

Well, I have a feeling you're going to get standard bureaucrat responses, but good luck.

[urbanlife]

I would also ask why the park does not yet have a proper beach comber. What I referred to earlier as a comber is a jerry-ridged rake on a piece of farm equipment.

+1

I'd also like to personally see a small play area with some swings at lower edgewater.

[Pugu]

4. The presence of prostitutes and "cruisers" engaging in sex in the upper lot creates a very poor atmosphere. Why doesn't law enforcement crack down on this?

I've never seen this--which is the 'upper lot'?

[gottaplan]

Give em hell Believeland!!! 

1.  Ask how often they plan to mow the park.  Weekly?  Biweekly?  Ask if the guys actually get off their mower to pick up tree branches & trash or just mow around it.  Big difference

2.  Ask what sort of annual budget for IMPROVEMENTS they have.  Not just maintenance, like painting, mulching & mowing, I mean actual upgrades & improvements.  How about the last time an updated master plan was done to study current & planned uses?  I bet it's been 20 years since those exercise stations were last installed and that was probably the last major improvement.

3.  When he/she starts giving you all the excuses about the budget cuts, ask what they've done to solicit help from other groups, charities, trusts, businesses etc?  Perhaps get some corporate sponsorship for naming rights in exchange for larger pot of money for improvements.   Something like "Ganley" beach at Edgewater Park, in exchange for an extra $100k for maintaining it.  Or maybe "Domino's Pizza" pavillion at the lower park for upgrading the building.  "United Airlines" soccer fields at Edgewater.   You get the point.  If his/her answer is "we've never done anything like that, well then they really don't give a damn about keeping the place up. 

"Friends of Edgewater" is a nice little dedicated group, but how about reaching out to local schools for student help, fraternities & sororities from CSU +CWRU for community work, soliciting the nearby local block clubs to dedicate one weekend a month....  who would really say 'no' if the State came to your block club and said "look we need your help, we can't do it ourselves".   

[gottaplan]

4. The presence of prostitutes and "cruisers" engaging in sex in the upper lot creates a very poor atmosphere. Why doesn't law enforcement crack down on this?

I've never seen this--which is the 'upper lot'?

upper lot is accessed from West Blvd.  Lower lot is by the beach and about 60' lower.  Steep paved trail connects the two

[KJP]

Do you really think that the state parks system, under Gov. Kasich, would do anything to provide a more enjoyable experience for state parks in urban areas? He seems to treat urban areas as morally corrupt (and based on what was written here about the upper lot, Kasich can point to it and say he's right). Cleveland couldn't afford to maintain Edgewater Park, so it was transferred to the state several decades ago. I think it's time to take it back, or make it part of the Cleveland Metroparks.

[gottaplan]

I wondered how long this could go before someone made a political comment even though Edgewater has languished and been neglected by a half dozen previous administrations.  When was the last time the park got a real upgrade of any sort?  Who was the last governor to actually increase rather than maintain or decrease the budget?  You don't really think things would be any different if Strickland had been re-elected, do you?

[CleveChiNola]

good point KJP
good point gottaplan

Speaking of the beach...who maintains Mentor Highlands.  I haven't been there for many many years, but it always seemed like a good beach.  Can they offer any lessons learned?

[andrew0816]

Speaking of the beach...who maintains Mentor Highlands.  I haven't been there for many many years, but it always seemed like a good beach.  Can they offer any lessons learned?

Mentor Headlands is a great beach (one of my favorites, in Ohio), but they also face similar issues with branch removal and the like (but not to the scale of Edgewater). Like Edgewater, Mentor Headlands is also state park.

[KJP]

(but not to the scale of Edgewater)

And there it is.

[rockandroller]

Honestly, Huntington is not much better. I was absolultely appalled on my visits there with my family this past year with the amount of crap and debris in the sand. I had to pick out and throw away a lot of dirty and sometimes dangerous trash, poop, cigarette butts, broken glass, etc while my kid was playing in the sand. And I haven't even bothered to take him to Edgewater as it has just gotten worse and worse over the years. The sand at both beaches is just so nasty and dirty, it's probably not even safe for humans to be laying on and playing in with all the junk in there. It's embarrassing.

The pervs sitting in their car waiting to find other guys to hook up with is the #1 reason why I quit going to Edgewater and why I won't bring my son there. And they are in the upper area where the main playing area is too. I see plenty of pervs throughout the metroparks system too but it's large and spread out enough that if you get to a pervy location, you can just drive on to another location where there aren't any pervs. It's too bad predators like this ruin a beautiful area like a beach or park.

My question would be what can they do to effect a major cleanup of the sand at Edgewater and then bring in new, fresh sand to put on top of it.

[CleveChiNola]

Any chance that the metroparks system could be convinced to take over Cleveland's lakefront State parks?

[MyTwoSense]

After about 30 submissions on the Ohio State Parks website, I finally got a phone call response form one of the park directors.  I have been wanting to challenge them about maintenance and ideas to better use the space.  I am slated to call him back on Thursday.  I am half tempted to recommend a town hall meeting about the park, but I dont know if they will grant that.  Nevertheless, I have an arsenal of things to ask this gentleman, and complain about...but I am curious if there are any questions from my UO family that you would like to specifically asked/addressed.  Feel free to let me know.

What exactly are your talking points?

[CBC]

Any chance that the metroparks system could be convinced to take over Cleveland's lakefront State parks?

Well the state only runs Edgewater, the  city still owns it so its not impossible.

[BelievelandD1]

After about 30 submissions on the Ohio State Parks website, I finally got a phone call response form one of the park directors.  I have been wanting to challenge them about maintenance and ideas to better use the space.  I am slated to call him back on Thursday.  I am half tempted to recommend a town hall meeting about the park, but I dont know if they will grant that.  Nevertheless, I have an arsenal of things to ask this gentleman, and complain about...but I am curious if there are any questions from my UO family that you would like to specifically asked/addressed.  Feel free to let me know.

What exactly are your talking points?

I run through the park multiple times per week and I am dissatisfied with the general maintenance taking place.  Why cant the cut the grass, there are trees still down from summer, etc. I am not going to just complain though.  There is a large grassy hill where people sled in the winter, but in the summer it is gorgeous green space, but it is so unwelcoming.  You see cities like London that have Primrose Hill, orrr Gasworks Park in Seattle where the hills are nice and people bring blankets and sit and enjoy the green space...but the green space needs to be taken care of.   Why cant they give that hill a catchy name, landscape it a little and make people want to sit and enjoy a nice view of the water.

Also, I want to see what the regulations are about food trucks on the park property.  On Saturdays in the summer, it would be great if the food trucks came down to the park and gave people food options.  The food trucks are always available on twitter asking for recommendations.  I think it could add a different crowd to the beach.  Thats just a few topics.

[MyTwoSense]

After about 30 submissions on the Ohio State Parks website, I finally got a phone call response form one of the park directors.  I have been wanting to challenge them about maintenance and ideas to better use the space.  I am slated to call him back on Thursday.  I am half tempted to recommend a town hall meeting about the park, but I dont know if they will grant that.  Nevertheless, I have an arsenal of things to ask this gentleman, and complain about...but I am curious if there are any questions from my UO family that you would like to specifically asked/addressed.  Feel free to let me know.

What exactly are your talking points?

I run through the park multiple times per week and I am dissatisfied with the general maintenance taking place.  Why cant the cut the grass, there are trees still down from summer, etc. I am not going to just complain though.  There is a large grassy hill where people sled in the winter, but in the summer it is gorgeous green space, but it is so unwelcoming.  You see cities like London that have Primrose Hill, orrr Gasworks Park in Seattle where the hills are nice and people bring blankets and sit and enjoy the green space...but the green space needs to be taken care of.   Why cant they give that hill a catchy name, landscape it a little and make people want to sit and enjoy a nice view of the water.

Also, I want to see what the regulations are about food trucks on the park property.  On Saturdays in the summer, it would be great if the food trucks came down to the park and gave people food options.  The food trucks are always available on twitter asking for recommendations.  I think it could add a different crowd to the beach.  Thats just a few topics.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but the best way to address this is by bullet point.

the KISS method is the best method.  Give us the bullet point, then suggested correction.  Try to leave out as much personal as possible as it could turn off the person who you're speaking with.  Example, what some other city has to offer or does.

then listed to what the rules/regulations are for those suggestions as we may have to vote or write elected officials to make certain changes.   IE, if a vendor comes to the park do they need to be licensed? What hours can they display/sell their products? If food is involved since its a park/beach, can they only sell product in glass or plastic? Where is the location of the vendor stand in the park? etc, etc, etc??

Please list all points as there are people here that may have similar suggestions or may not have thought of something you have noticed.

This is what is great about UO, it's a great incubator of ideas and suggestions.   

What is you AIM (and potential why)?
What is the current situation at the park?
What is the best way to proceed? (After you call, you can prepare a plan)

Then you need to

Inform/Inspire others (there are people here involved in the park cleanups led by EC, get them involved)
Lead by action & example
Measure the progress

Lets create real and obtainable talk points/"must haves" to make the park a better place.  Help us to help you.

[BelievelandD1]

^ you're not coming off as a dick.  I realize people have different tactics to how they go about their business, and you're input will be considered. 

[CleveChiNola]

***General Reminder Folks*****
Please do not use curse words on the site, or at least substitute a character, like "d!ck".
A lot of members log in from work, and we don't want to have the forum wind up on a banned list.

Thanks

[BelievelandD1]

my apologies

[MyTwoSense]

***General Reminder Folks*****
Please do not use curse words on the site, or at least substitute a character, like "d!ck".
A lot of members log in from work, and we don't want to have the forum wind up on a banned list.

Thanks

Understood, but "dick" wont get you banned as its a formal name.

[surfohio]

And I haven't even bothered to take him to Edgewater as it has just gotten worse and worse over the years. The sand at both beaches is just so nasty and dirty, it's probably not even safe for humans to be laying on and playing in with all the junk in there. It's embarrassing.

My question would be what can they do to effect a major cleanup of the sand at Edgewater and then bring in new, fresh sand to put on top of it.

If you check out the areas @ Edge where the sand collects (along fences, dunes, by the treeline) you'll see that the sand is of very high quality. Really nice.

If dune areas were created, and the beach wasn't bulldozed it would be much much nicer.

Chalk the current situation up to bad management, lack of resources, ignorance, negligence.... I don't know. I just want to see the problems corrected asap.

[BelievelandD1]

I spent about 45 minutes on the phone with the regional director of Edgewater.  The call rfom this gentleman was due to my final website submission...i got a little pushy since i was ignored the first few times (complaining can work).  Here is what i took from the conversation:

-They have no money and the state parks are not a priority of the state administration right now.
-Edgewater will be teaming up with Mohican, Punderson and a few others in a realignment for funds.
-When asked about commercialization to have corporate names of the beach/pavillion, he stated the commercialization is illegal but is being discussed at the state level to have the law reversed.  I emphasized that the users of the park really want to see an increase in the operating budget and more work put into the park and they should seriously consider going down this road. 
-They are planning on getting rid of the upper level fallen trees at spring clean-up.  They secured a ton of funds and a rather large piece of equipment to go through this winter and get rid of it all, but so many people had taken the wood, that they decided there was not enough left for getting this huge piece of equipment up to cleveland and spending the time/man power to get rid of the residual.
-There are 7 FTE's who do maintenance of the park, and they aim for mowing once every two weeks during spring/summer.  Would like to do more, but they are responsible for parks all the way up and down the metro area coast.
-They have three pieces of equipment to "comb" the sand.  The bulldozer, a piece of equipment that gets rid of the big stuff, and a beach cleaner.  The beach cleaner is shared with Geneva, Euclid, Headlands and Villa Angela.  Once again, they rotate and use it when they can.  "Friends of Edgwater" want to purchase an $18,000 beach cleaner and have it be Edgewaters.  The state is advising against this, as it is smaller than the $100,000+ unit they currently use and they noted its appropriate it to combing the beach in front of your beachfront property for a party, not for a huge state park.
-Once again, man power is at a premium.
-****In the next year or two, it could be on the ballot for us voters to vote the State park over to the Metroparks.  The State employees actually wouldnt mind this especially if their jobs would be secured because of their knowledge of the park.  They feel the same pain that the users do and he states that he uses the park as well.
-Food Trucks are illegal, as the contract is awarded to honey hut and the other stand...and they have a "no-competition" clause in their contract.  I hate this rule.  If food trucks could roll up to the beach it would bring a whole new crowd.
-Public Art is legal and welcome, but any proposals need to go to the State for review.  I highly encourage getting ideas pitched by local artists.
-It sounds like "Friends of Edgewater" actually have more control (in terms of the product delivered to the public) than the state, the state just controls what priority it is on the agenda.
-All other questions i asked in regards to dunes, beach combers, new swing sets, etc. they just dont have the money.
-I asked exactly what they do to move the park forward and he stated there are small improvements that take place (cigarette butt bins).

All in all, i am going to be joining friends of edgewater as i think that is the only way things can get done and I think the public should push for the issue to be on the ballot for vote.

[gottaplan]

Nice work setting the call up & putting forth the initiative

[BelievelandD1]

^I asked him to e-mail me.  I want to be in open communication with the parks and keep this going. I also challenged him (hes been doing this for 20-30 years, so i dont know how much he cares) to scratch, claw and push in any state meetings that he attends and to have a passion for his domain.  I feel as if his superiors say "we cant do this" and its the end of the discussion.  I think he needs to fight for it.  People are afraid to do that though.

[rockandroller]

good job believeland, nice work.

[BelievelandD1]

He followed up with an e-mail shown below.  There is the phone number there which i suppose is a hotline.  Put it in your phones and absolutely drill them with phone calls when you see something that needs fixed.  Lets keep the pressure on them.  Eventually all of the unrest will make its way into state meetings.

"Thank you for your interest in the conditions at Edgewater.  We appreciate any communication and/or assistance you can provide.   In your e-mail, you expressed an interest in establishing projects to benefit the park and we welcome those.  Your group could get registered separately with our volunteer coordinator or you may want to work with some of the other groups that have formed to do this same work (http://www.facebook.com/?sk=welcome#!/pages/Friends-of-Edgewater-State-Park/109223987019).  Also, I would encourage all of your members that if they see something that is in need of repair or sprucing up, please call the office immediately (216-881-8141) or e-mail cleveland.parks@dnr.state.oh.us and request that a work order be completed.  If it is a safety issue, we may have to close a portion of the park until we are able to get it fixed.  Otherwise we will prioritize the repair making every effort to complete it quickly and efficiently.  When initiating a work order, make sure that a thorough description of the location within the park can be provided so our staff is able to find the issue.  If you call or e-mail me, that is fine but it will likely delay the process as I am often away from my desk.   Thanks again for your interest and assistance."

 

[ClevelandOhio]

Thanks for sharing. It would be awesome if we could vote on it in the next year or two!

[DeanSheen]

Thanks for this information.  I just sent the following email and will call the office on Monday.  - DS

Hello,

I am writing in inquire about the swings in Edgewater park.  At present, there is not a functioning swing on the swing set at the top of the park by the pavillion.  I enjoy taking my child there to play and it is absurd that people cannot use the swings with their children when they go to the park. 

Is there a replacement schedule for these items?

Thanks

[rockandroller]

On a related note, how does Mentor/Painesville maintain Headlands beach? I took my son there this weekend and was blown away at how clean and well-kept it was. Visible clean-up crews the whole time we were there, smoothing sand and removing debris.

[KJP]

On a related note, how does Mentor/Painesville maintain Headlands beach? I took my son there this weekend and was blown away at how clean and well-kept it was. Visible clean-up crews the whole time we were there, smoothing sand and removing debris.

That's also a state park. If the state is putting more resources into that park vs. Edgewater, then this will only give more ammunition to critics who say our state government is anti-urban.

[ClevelandOhio]

Mentor might just put more focus and funds towards the park/beach. It would be interesting to see funding breakdown for both.

[rockandroller]

I just couldn't believe how different they were. Huntington Beach looks like dirt on the bottom of my shoe next to Mentor. We dug all around in there with beach toys and there were no pieces of garbage, glops of dried dog poop, cig butts, any of the crap we find when in the sand at Huntington or Edgewater. I am never going back to either beach unless something drastically changes. I can't believe I've lived here all these years and never drove out to that beach before. I just figured it wasn't any different than the other ones. I am a convert.

[surfohio]

I just couldn't believe how different they were. Huntington Beach looks like dirt on the bottom of my shoe next to Mentor. We dug all around in there with beach toys and there were no pieces of garbage, glops of dried dog poop, cig butts, any of the crap we find when in the sand at Huntington or Edgewater. I am never going back to either beach unless something drastically changes. I can't believe I've lived here all these years and never drove out to that beach before. I just figured it wasn't any different than the other ones. I am a convert.

This may sound weird, but it's really good to read your complaints, which are indeed valid ones.

So many people here just don't care at all.