Topic: Cincinnati: Clifton Heights: U Square @ the Loop

[unusualfire]

Welcome Kjbrill.

[jmicha]

No, but I expect something that is at least good. There's a difference between expecting starchitecture (which I do not, and will never expect) and just expecting something that is properly scaled, has a decent selection of materials, and has an aesthetically pleasing design. That can be done in this style of development it just requires proper architectural input, not design by committee.

[kjbrill]

Perhaps it should be deisgned by the College of Architecture at UC. Then you could really get design by committee plus design by muff-ears who probably have never actually had one of their designs built.

[jmicha]

...not really sure why the animosity towards UC's program (of which I'm a grad student in) but it sure sounds like you have literally no understanding of the quality of the people in charge of the program. Not only have the vast majority of professors practiced, many still, to this day, offer design services and keep networks with professionals from around the world.

As for construction progress, the site has been fenced off, including Hartshorn. I'll attempt to get pictures of its demolition and the material selection if I get some free time in the coming days.

[willalbro]

Ya, they are in full swing with the excavation phases. It's on and cracking.

[OCtoCincy]

Perhaps it should be deisgned by the College of Architecture at UC. Then you could really get design by committee plus design by muff-ears who probably have never actually had one of their designs built.

This forum is NOT for being a pompous ass and bashing DAAP students because you think your job is better.  I was very patient with you at first, now you've gone from having a different opinion to just being obnoxious and not providing anything to the conversation.

[jmicha]

^Thank you for that. That comment is extremely insulting to me and many others on this forum whom are a part of DAAP, graduated from DAAP, or are just supporters of DAAP.

Excavation on the site has started. I didn't realize that the small parking lot along McMillan behind the buildings alongside NK Salon and Beelistic was a part of this project. I thought the project stopped short of that so it is good to see that that will be gone shortly.

Utility work along Calhoun has closed the southern lane for what I'm assuming will be a while and it looks like some utility work may be happening along McMillan at some point soon. Traffic was backed up a bit when I walked by on two occasions today, but not too bad. The displacement of parking, however, should be noted for anyone planning to try to park up there at any time.

I will still try to get photos of the excavation maybe this weekend. I didn't have my camera on me and my phone's camera is laughable at best so I didn't even bother. Plus there isn't much to see at the moment with the exception of lots of digging.

[TheHemroid]

Kjbrill is angry because he never got into DAAP or went to school in the first place so yeah jmicha, its insulting.  I graduated from there and loved it.  Back to the subject at hand, wonder why they don't just open all lanes and have no parking on Calhoun.  That would open two more lanes.  Its getting bad up there.  It might actually require people to walk

[Jimmy_James]

Kjbrill is angry because he never got into DAAP or went to school in the first place so yeah jmicha, its insulting.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but I don't see how you could possibly back that up.

[TheHemroid]

Eh it doesn't matter.  Anyways, I ate at that new Adriadicos.  Great location.  Its perfect for what's going on up there.

[Jimmy_James]

^Where's the new one at?  I hear people referencing it, but I've never known the location and I don't spend much time in that area these days. 

[natininja]

kjbrill said he was an engineer, so I'd assume he went to school. But being a a former engineer explains a lot. I've met some enlightened engineers (in terms of urban issues), but most of them are stuck in stone age thinking, e.g. "the best street is the widest and straightest".

Likewise, I find many left brain types think they are being practical when they value function to the extreme detriment of form, thereby ignoring the function OF form. E.g. the very real psychological effects aesthetics can have. I used to not really value aesthetics until I realized there are very real scientific/psychological and economic effects. We are people, and we do ourselves no good pretending we are robots that don't respond in tangible ways to the aesthetics of our environment. That position is untenable in the face of facts.

[jmecklenborg]

Unfortunately many engineers, such as a certain relative of mine, allow high standardized test scores and resultant slobbery kisses from their mothers convince themselves of their exceptional place in this world, when they often lack common social skills and the recognition that the world is run by people who exploit emotion.   

[mcadrenaline]

The new Adriatico's is on the southern side of McMillian between W. Clifton and Ohio, actually right next to Pomodoris Pizza (friendly neighborhood compeition, perhaps?)

[Jimmy_James]

The new Adriatico's is on the southern side of McMillian between W. Clifton and Ohio, actually right next to Pomodoris Pizza (friendly neighborhood compeition, perhaps?)

I'll have to check that out.  Thanks!

[jmicha]

^I walked by there yesterday on the way to Bdubs and it was PACKED. I figured it would do well, but not that well. Pomodoris, on the other hand, was quite sad in its emptiness. I'd say it's less competition and more a complete obliteration of the market.

[Jskinner]

Yeah, the pizzas are totally different and so are the atmoshperes of the the two places, but I don't hold out much hope for Pomi's.  That location is pretty run-down.  I was there 2 weeks ago and was noticing how the walls need to be painted and how unpleasant the cramped bathrooms were.  Pomodoris has a much bigger and newer location in Montgomery that gets big crowds.

I also went to Adriaticos, and they have their problems too.  The seating is tight and the servers didn't really know how to serve.  And yes they have 20 beer taps, but lots of them are cheap domestic beers I would never drink.  Seems more college oriented with all the TVs than Pomis.

[DetroitExPat]

Is there decent parking at the new Adriatico's? I have been wanting to go there but I really really am bad at parallel parking.

[jmecklenborg]

They have a lot with 7 spaces about 4 houses down on the right.  Unfortunately it is not well marked.

[DetroitExPat]

Great! Thanks...I hopefully will pick a day that's not too busy.

[TheHemroid]

The new Adriatico's is on the southern side of McMillian between W. Clifton and Ohio, actually right next to Pomodoris Pizza (friendly neighborhood compeition, perhaps?)

I'll have to check that out.  Thanks!


Speaking of friendly competition and I want everyone to listen to this.  Do not, I repeat DO NOT park in that Pomodori's Pizza lot if you're going to Adriadico's.  They'll tow you in a heartbeat.  Those cooks literally come out of that back door and tell you to move the car.  They need to fix that parking situation pronto.

[mcadrenaline]

Went to the new Adriatico's last night for a late dinner around midnight and it was indeed PACKED. Our service was fine but the food took awhile since they were busy. It's a nice space, definitely upscale for a college pizza joint, but it's not the biggest place. Nice addition to the area for sure!

[TheHemroid]

Are there any midrise to highrise residential units planned for this site? Any idea on height?

[willalbro]

Are there any midrise to highrise residential units planned for this site? Any idea on height?

If one can put any stock in the renderings on their facebook page then I would say it is gonna be around 5 stories including street level.

[JYP]

Everything is 5 stories according to the drawings they submitted to the city's Planning Commission. l'm also surprised that Phase I is just the building nearest to Clifton Ave and does not include the building next to the gas station.

[OCtoCincy]

^ where can I see what's in Phase 1 specifically?

[JYP]

Second to last item in tomorrow's PC packet: http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/bldginsp/downloads/bldginsp_eps45145.pdf

[kjbrill]

Boy is this the way the City does everything? Ater wading through the Reeves Gof Course thing, I did find something located close to UC though I was still unsure what it was. And they want to know why the citizens are frustrated? Just wade through this piece of crap and you will know.

[kjbrill]

It the uptown loop of the streetcar does not reach here, how will it affect this project? Will the right-of-ways be reserved? Will the utilities infrastructure be involved to avoid what is going on downtown right now? Who is in charge of this future?

[OCtoCincy]

Boy is this the way the City does everything? Ater wading through the Reeves Gof Course thing, I did find something located close to UC though I was still unsure what it was. And they want to know why the citizens are frustrated? Just wade through this piece of crap and you will know.

Are you serious? You're driving me nuts. Your comments add nothing of value to this entire forum.

These are architecture plans.  Of course its confusing to someone who is not an architect/planner and was not at the meeting where they were talked through.  The Planning commission is the specialized group that deals with major development plans (totally simplifying their purpose for this conversation).  I guarantee the government entity that approves the union place development or whatever in West Chester will look at the same type of images, since they were designed and put together by the private for profit developer who is building this.

Additionally, in the private sector the plans for building a new skyscraper ARE NOT supposed to be able to be read by Joe Average.  And you are ok with that- but as soon as a government entity expects to hold its planners up to a high standard you go "No wonder blah blah blah! A regular person can't read this and things are only good if someone with no specialized education can follow it!"
 

[kjbrill]

So, I simply ask whether the streetcar right-of-way will be included in this development for the future and immediately I have no value. I guess it is better to rip everything up if and when he streetcar gets extended to this area. That is part of the intent is it not?

[OCtoCincy]

I Am fine with real debate and even criticism, but the attitude is ridiculous.

[TheHemroid]

I'm not trying to start anything here.  But after reading, I've come to the conclusion that certain people living in Cincy don't actually like it here.  Its sad.  The strange thing is they find excuses to stay and bash it.  The streetcar is being built whether haters like it or not and it will be reaching U Square in the future.  Bad attitudes about positive progression will eventually make haters very lonely.  Cincy has her share of haters and right now but with all of this progression, they're being left in the dust. 

[OCtoCincy]

It the uptown loop of the streetcar does not reach here, how will it affect this project? Will the right-of-ways be reserved? Will the utilities infrastructure be involved to avoid what is going on downtown right now? Who is in charge of this future?

This project will do well with UC as its base without the streetcar.  In fact, there are no official plans to loop it with the streetcar. The only official streetcar plans that exist take it from downtown/OTR, up vine, to the Zoo via Jefferson & Short Vine.  The developer knows that.

Utility relocation will likely occur the same way it does for all rail projrcts, after an official plan has been determined, although it would be interesting of the City could work with Duke (since Duke is currently tearing up Calhoun to replace its old pipes) to relocate them in an area that would be better suited to potential future streetcar plans.

I don't get your last question but I think I answered it.

[kjbrill]

It the uptown loop of the streetcar does not reach here, how will it affect this project? Will the right-of-ways be reserved? Will the utilities infrastructure be involved to avoid what is going on downtown right now? Who is in charge of this future?

This project will do well with UC as its base without the streetcar.  In fact, there are no official plans to loop it with the streetcar. The only official streetcar plans that exist take it from downtown/OTR, up vine, to the Zoo via Jefferson & Short Vine.  The developer knows that.

Utility relocation will likely occur the same way it does for all rail projrcts, after an official plan has been determined, although it would be interesting of the City could work with Duke (since Duke is currently tearing up Calhoun to replace its old pipes) to relocate them in an area that would be better suited to potential future streetcar plans.

I don't get your last question but I think I answered it.

Thanks for a resonable answer. I went and checked the existing streetcar route for uptown and it does not show it coming through this area. I just thought it might be prudent while doing extensive utility and intrastructure work to include some provision for a possible steetcar spur.