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I can agree on the 'earned it' / 'deserved it' semantics. Whatever.However, other than perhaps an inkling of credibility to the conspiracy theory that he threw the Boston series in 2010, I don't think you can even make the suggestion that he never wanted a title here in Cleveland. Nonsense. He played his arse off for this team for at least 6 3/4 years. Game 5 against Detroit? Anybody? Two straight seasons with the best record in the league. Two straight MVPs. He just wasn't as mature as he made himself out to be and a lot of us thought he was. He didn't make the adjustments to his game that he made this year which allowed him to get over the hump. And, let's not underestimate that things fell pretty nicely for Miami this offseason, with the icing on the cake being the role players chipping in a lion's share of the 14-26 shooting behind the arc last night. Top that off with the news that Perkins (OKC's 'enforcer') was playing with a torn groin. Give us that luck in 07-10 and we have a ring or two as well.
^^1. 2. If we have to have the conversation, can we at least limit it to people who actually have some sense of what 'Cleveland sports fan' relishes in and has a sense of pride about. I realize the door is wide open for cheap shots from people who 'relish' and 'take pride' in those sort of antics, but please don't generalize on subject you know nothing about. Let's not turn this into another "AFC North thread" debacle................ whose stupid idea was that anyway
Quote from: City Blights on June 22, 2012, 07:24:01 AM1. Having a sense of pride about mediocrity. I don't see Cleveland fans demanding much of their teams outside of competitiveness.Absolutely not true as a general rule.Quote from: City Blights on June 22, 2012, 07:24:01 AM2. Relishing the role of National Sports Victim. Philadelphia does its fair share of whining, but Cleland probably takes the cake in this category. Cincinnati had their former franchise QB walk out on them with four years left on his contract and that city still doesn't weep like Cleveland did over Lebron.You're equating the LeBron James situation to Carson Palmer? Personally I think that's a huge stretch. I think that any city with a large, passionate fanbase that had to deal with what Cleveland has had to deal with (either the James situation specifically or the numerous crushing sports defeats over the years) would react as we have reacted.
1. Having a sense of pride about mediocrity. I don't see Cleveland fans demanding much of their teams outside of competitiveness.
2. Relishing the role of National Sports Victim. Philadelphia does its fair share of whining, but Cleland probably takes the cake in this category. Cincinnati had their former franchise QB walk out on them with four years left on his contract and that city still doesn't weep like Cleveland did over Lebron.
Quote from: Clevelander17 on June 22, 2012, 08:50:26 AMQuote from: City Blights on June 22, 2012, 07:24:01 AM1. Having a sense of pride about mediocrity. I don't see Cleveland fans demanding much of their teams outside of competitiveness.Absolutely not true as a general rule.Quote from: City Blights on June 22, 2012, 07:24:01 AM2. Relishing the role of National Sports Victim. Philadelphia does its fair share of whining, but Cleland probably takes the cake in this category. Cincinnati had their former franchise QB walk out on them with four years left on his contract and that city still doesn't weep like Cleveland did over Lebron.You're equating the LeBron James situation to Carson Palmer? Personally I think that's a huge stretch. I think that any city with a large, passionate fanbase that had to deal with what Cleveland has had to deal with (either the James situation specifically or the numerous crushing sports defeats over the years) would react as we have reacted. No situation could compare to the Lebron-Cleveland fallout. Why? Carson Palmer, a former #1 overall, once one of the best players in the game, quit on his team halfway through a 2010 season that began with Super Bowl aspirations and then retired in order to force a trade. That has never happened before. If anything, there's no comparing Cincinnati's situation to anyone else's.There are other cities that have experienced significant sports tragedy, including my example of Cincinnati. The Drive? How about Joe Montana going down the field on the Bengals in the 88' Super Bowl?The Fumble? How about The Hit? A 66-yard completion to Chris Henry turns into an Carson Palmer ACL injury and a lifetime of What If's...The hit that took Carson out didn't become illegal until it happened to Tom Brady a few years later...how do you think Cincinnati fans felt seeing that the league cared so little about them?The Decision? How about The Strike? The Reds were one of the best teams in baseball with a Hall of Famer in the middle of their lineup (Barry Larkin) in 1994. Either the Braves, Expos or Reds were going to win the World Series that year. In 1995 the team was a little older and couldn't keep up with the fresher Atlanta squad in the playoffs. 1994 may have been their time.The Injury. Kenyon Martin breaks his leg the University of Cincinnati's conference tournament in 2000. The Bearcats were ranked #1 in the country and the prohibitive favorite to win it all.Pete Rose received a lifetime ban for gambling that no commissioner dare touch, yet Mark McGwire could use steroids to increase his own odds of winning and is currently employed by the St. Louis Cardinals.I think you just gave credence to my belief that a good section of the Cleveland fanbase does feel victimized. Other cities have had to deal with sports tragedy too.
No situation could compare to the Lebron-Cleveland fallout. Why? Carson Palmer, a former #1 overall, once one of the best players in the game, quit on his team halfway through a 2010 season that began with Super Bowl aspirations and then retired in order to force a trade. That has never happened before. If anything, there's no comparing Cincinnati's situation to anyone else's.There are other cities that have experienced significant sports tragedy, including my example of Cincinnati. The Drive? How about Joe Montana going down the field on the Bengals in the 88' Super Bowl?The Fumble? How about The Hit? A 66-yard completion to Chris Henry turns into an Carson Palmer ACL injury and a lifetime of What If's...The hit that took Carson out didn't become illegal until it happened to Tom Brady a few years later...how do you think Cincinnati fans felt seeing that the league cared so little about them?The Decision? How about The Strike? The Reds were one of the best teams in baseball with a Hall of Famer in the middle of their lineup (Barry Larkin) in 1994. Either the Braves, Expos or Reds were going to win the World Series that year. In 1995 the team was a little older and couldn't keep up with the fresher Atlanta squad in the playoffs. 1994 may have been their time.The Injury. Kenyon Martin breaks his leg the University of Cincinnati's conference tournament in 2000. The Bearcats were ranked #1 in the country and the prohibitive favorite to win it all.Pete Rose received a lifetime ban for gambling that no commissioner dare touch, yet Mark McGwire could use steroids to increase his own odds of winning and is currently employed by the St. Louis Cardinals.I think you just gave credence to my belief that a good section of the Cleveland fanbase does feel victimized. Other cities have had to deal with sports tragedy too.
*asterisk* season!
Quote from: Hts121 on June 22, 2012, 07:59:07 AM^^1. 2. If we have to have the conversation, can we at least limit it to people who actually have some sense of what 'Cleveland sports fan' relishes in and has a sense of pride about. I realize the door is wide open for cheap shots from people who 'relish' and 'take pride' in those sort of antics, but please don't generalize on subject you know nothing about. Let's not turn this into another "AFC North thread" debacle................ whose stupid idea was that anyway I know nothing about Cleveland now? News to me.The Browns home attendance is always one of the tops in the league. What has their record been lately? Off the top of my head:2011: 5/112010: 5/112009: 4/12They haven't won more than 5 games since 2007 I believe. Having a sense of pride about mediocrity is showing up to games to root for a team that consistently delivers a mediocre product. Cincinnati fans smartened up and curbed their direct spending with Mike Brown, gaining them leverage in ticket prices and other concessions the owner has made in the past 9 months.How many more 5-11's do Cleveland fans have to endure before they boycott the stadium?
Let's not turn this into another "AFC North thread" debacle................ whose stupid idea was that anyway
Quote from: mrnyc on June 23, 2012, 01:11:24 AM*asterisk* season!As much as I'd love to agree, what's this based on?
Quote from: City Blights on June 22, 2012, 07:36:12 PMNo situation could compare to the Lebron-Cleveland fallout. Why? Carson Palmer, a former #1 overall, once one of the best players in the game, quit on his team halfway through a 2010 season that began with Super Bowl aspirations and then retired in order to force a trade. That has never happened before. If anything, there's no comparing Cincinnati's situation to anyone else's.There are other cities that have experienced significant sports tragedy, including my example of Cincinnati. The Drive? How about Joe Montana going down the field on the Bengals in the 88' Super Bowl?The Fumble? How about The Hit? A 66-yard completion to Chris Henry turns into an Carson Palmer ACL injury and a lifetime of What If's...The hit that took Carson out didn't become illegal until it happened to Tom Brady a few years later...how do you think Cincinnati fans felt seeing that the league cared so little about them?The Decision? How about The Strike? The Reds were one of the best teams in baseball with a Hall of Famer in the middle of their lineup (Barry Larkin) in 1994. Either the Braves, Expos or Reds were going to win the World Series that year. In 1995 the team was a little older and couldn't keep up with the fresher Atlanta squad in the playoffs. 1994 may have been their time.The Injury. Kenyon Martin breaks his leg the University of Cincinnati's conference tournament in 2000. The Bearcats were ranked #1 in the country and the prohibitive favorite to win it all.Pete Rose received a lifetime ban for gambling that no commissioner dare touch, yet Mark McGwire could use steroids to increase his own odds of winning and is currently employed by the St. Louis Cardinals.I think you just gave credence to my belief that a good section of the Cleveland fanbase does feel victimized. Other cities have had to deal with sports tragedy too.Oh, I almost forgot, Carson Palmer was the local hero from Middletown, Ohio who was going to save the city from their 70 year title drought. Except for the part about him being from Middletown. And the part about the seven decade drought. Really though, as someone else pointed out, it's that last statement that is the key here. Out of all of the cities with at least three major pro sports franchises, none has had to deal with almost a half-century without one winning a title. If some of us "feel victimized," it's a pretty legitimate feeling. While Cincinnati's luck may not be the greatest, at least most Reds fans can remember what it's like to see a team lift the hardware.Ultimately as I've said time and again, most of the Cleveland sports fan's psychopathology, most of the way we look at past defeats, is built around not having a recent championship. And to bring this discussion full circle and back on topic, it's why watching the best player in the NBA who we drafted win a title in another city is a difficult pill to swallow. If we had a few titles under our belt, the anger and sadness towards James would still be there, but the intensity would be nowhere close to what it is with the current situation.
Actually, I would prefer that we not have a debate on who's had it worse. Ever go to a bar and there's this beaten-down guy at the end of the bar who has his own private stool to sit on for the past few decades? From it, he cops an attitude about everything, has a chip on his shoulder about everything and lives his life through a rear-view mirror. When some poor unsuspecting soul sits down next to him and starts complaining about something, the bartender winces. Why? For the next however-long the new arrival cares to stay, the debate continues for who has had the toughest life. And who wins? What do they win? The chance to sit on that stool for the next 50 years until someone else comes along who can convince someone he has had a tougher life?No thanks. There's a great line in the movie The Shawshank Redemption: "Get busy living, or get busy dying." Yesterday is dead. Today and tomorrow are still alive. And if pro sports is that depressing for you (as it is sometimes for me), then find something else that brings you joy. I have no intention of spending the rest of my life on that barstool, looking back. Look ahead or die.
And I wasn't singling out anyone. I just think its more important to look ahead. I love learning about history, but not as a means to get energized from regret.EDIT: BTW, that's why I love summer and Browns training camp. I love to look ahead as hope springs eternal! Then comes fall and I start watching other teams and doing other things. But this thread is about basketball. So who's going to the Heat parade today??
For as long as I can remember, Cleveland has primarily defined itself by the success or failure of its pro teams. Ironically though, at a time when all 3 teams are languishing in mediocrity with no legitimate hope for a title run in sight, the city seems to be reviving and is poised now to make a genuine turnaround and comeback for the first time since the Industrial Collapse. Maybe that's a sign of some kind?I'd say it's long overdue for Cleveland and Clevelanders to stop being perpetual sports victims and start embracing the many things that are actually going right around town. Who needs South Beach?
So ESPN posted that video on youtube. Its up to almost 500,000. Thanks ESPN and Mark Johnson... Cleveland Weatherman Can't Help But Show His Frustration
Quote from: ClevelandOhio on June 26, 2012, 12:08:03 PMSo ESPN posted that video on youtube. Its up to almost 500,000. Thanks ESPN and Mark Johnson... Cleveland Weatherman Can't Help But Show His FrustrationBecause I love to torture myself, I'm tempted to click on that video just to see just how degrading the comments are regarding my fair city.
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Topic: NBA: General Discussion (Read 19671 times)
