Topic: Cleveland's Cultural Gardens

[urbanforever]

This post includes a comprehensive tour of Cleveland's cultural gardens.  In my opinion this is one of Cleveland's best kept secrets.  Its sits ride along MLK drive with some of the gardens being up the hill on east blvd.  Unfortunately since this area is in such a rough area in Cleveland there has been a lot of degration.  Many of the plaques and statues have been stolen and some of the sites are maintained not very well.  But you will find that there are still some amazing spots!

My hope is that Cleveland realizes this amazing asset and begins to put some investment into it.  I know that there are plans to run a new bike path through MLK drive in the lake to lake trail and make improvements to the park.  I would suggest finding ways to make these gardens more noticable, safer and cleaner.  Maybe UCI should create a guide to the gardens at their visitor center.  Also if we really want this area to take off security is key!  In order for people to invest in these areas statues need to stop being stolen.

Anyways enough with my thoughts here's the garden!

The Irish Gardens:











Israel:





Great Britain





Hungary:































Poland


Chopin (this is really sad!)

[Etheostoma Caeruleum]

Nice shots.. I do see many groups from time to time working on these areas. You may want to post this in the "Cleveland Best Kept Secrets" Thread too...

[ColDayMan]

It's a unique park.

[MyTwoSense]

I don't understand the correlation of the neighborhood and the  maintenance of the gardens???  The area the gardens are located, is  hardly "rough".
 
 If you want to place blame on the look of the gardens blame the Country/Nationality of that garden.  The country/nationality is suppose to maintain their garden. My grandmother has decades of  letter to countries who do not maintain their gardens.
 
 The only garden/green space, in that area, maintained by Cleveland is Rockefeller Park.

The garden you have listed as "Israel" is actually the Hebrew Garden.

[urbanforever]

I don't understand the correlation of the neighborhood and the  maintenance of the gardens???  The area the gardens are located, is  hardly "rough".
 
 If you want to place blame on the look of the gardens blame the Country/Nationality of that garden.  The country/nationality is suppose to maintain their garden. My grandmother has decades of  letter to countries who do not maintain their gardens.
 
 The only garden/green space, in that area, maintained by Cleveland is Rockefeller Park.

The garden you have listed as "Israel" is actually the Hebrew Garden.
[/quote]
You are right in saying that part of the blame is on the nationalities taking care of the gardens.  But a do believe that the surrounding neighborhood is still very rough.  Yes the area a couple streets away from the gardens is nice but you go 3 blocks out and your are in some of the roughest neighborhoods in Cleveland.  Just look at how many statues have been stolen from the gardens.  And I even saw a couple of people smoking weed in one of the gardens.

I think that in order to have more investment in the park from national groups that have to know that there statues won't get stolen. 

[Etheostoma Caeruleum]

I don't understand the correlation of the neighborhood and the  maintenance of the gardens???  The area the gardens are located, is  hardly "rough".
 
 If you want to place blame on the look of the gardens blame the Country/Nationality of that garden.  The country/nationality is suppose to maintain their garden. My grandmother has decades of  letter to countries who do not maintain their gardens.
 
 The only garden/green space, in that area, maintained by Cleveland is Rockefeller Park.

The garden you have listed as "Israel" is actually the Hebrew Garden.

Yes, you are correct and I agree.......they're supposed to maintain them...But at the same time.... idiots are not supposed to vandalize them either!

By the way... I look at the bust/head statues and imagine them starting to sing.. "Grim Grinning Ghosts!"

[StrapHanger]

Thanks for the great photos!  The metal "scrap" thieves have been a horrible plague in Cultural Gardens for a couple decades now, but looking at all the etched granite in your photos, it looks like some of the nationality groups have found a decent restoration strategy that has a better chance of being sustainable. It's pretty frustrating thinking of all the metal work, some of it one-of-a-kind that's been looted here over the years and liquidated for scrap value.

MTS, you may disagree, but that neighborhood is rough by most people's definitions.  I know it's not the worst in the city, but unless the CPD makes this stuff up, there is still a lot of nasty stuff goes down both east and west of the park.

[ink]

Great photos!

[MyTwoSense]

Before I forget, nice photos.  It nice to get photos of the Eastside.

You are right in saying that part of the blame is on the nationalities taking care of the gardens.  But a do believe that the surrounding neighborhood is still very rough.  Yes the area a couple streets away from the gardens is nice but you go 3 blocks out and your are in some of the roughest neighborhoods in Cleveland.  Just look at how many statues have been stolen from the gardens.  And I even saw a couple of people smoking weed in one of the gardens.

I think that in order to have more investment in the park from national groups that have to know that there statues won't get stolen. 

Not part. ALL

Hell people smoke weed everywhere, I'm not saying that as an excuse, but that happens everywhere and I hate drug use.  Secondly, the groups are suppose to maintain and secure.  They are not doing that.  Lets go back in time to the 70's when many of the support groups that maintained the gardens went broke or disbanded.  Who was out there cleaning the gardens?  My relatives and many of their neighbors.  My grand mother is probably in the gardens right now.

Yes, you are correct and I agree.......they're supposed to maintain them...But at the same time.... idiots are not supposed to vandalize them either!

By the way... I look at the bust/head statues and imagine them starting to sing.. "Grim Grinning Ghosts!"

What has that got to do with the neighborhood?  The those that have vandalized the area are mainly not residents.  As part of the gardens are my grand parents front yard, they and many residents on the westside of the park have complained to the city, council, park department, CPD about safety, vandalism and perception.  Because when anything happens in the gardens it's immediately blamed or associated with the neighborhood.  The majority of thefts have been by those who do not live in the area.

Now that the area is ripe for growth and is family oriented, many people "talk" about creating a preservation or alliance for the park.

Your quick to come up with long solutions for other things parks, wildlife, green space and nature perseveres, where is solution for clean up and maintenance of the Gardens?

In addition, if the gardens are "so called" important to various nationalities/ethnic groups, they need to maintain them on a weekly/monthly basis instead of when they have a ceremony at their respective garden.  This is something that has frustrated residents for decades.  In the last couple of years they've got matching funding grants for maintenance, but it's not enough as the gardens are quite large.

Thanks for the great photos!  The metal "scrap" thieves have been a horrible plague in Cultural Gardens for a couple decades now, but looking at all the etched granite in your photos, it looks like some of the nationality groups have found a decent restoration strategy that has a better chance of being sustainable. It's pretty frustrating thinking of all the metal work, some of it one-of-a-kind that's been looted here over the years and liquidated for scrap value.

MTS, you may disagree, but that neighborhood is rough by most people's definitions.  I know it's not the worst in the city, but unless the CPD makes this stuff up, there is still a lot of nasty stuff goes down both east and west of the park.

Yes, as a person who has spent quite a bit of time in the gardens and adjacent neighborhood, probably more than anyone on this board, with exception to the two members I know that live in the neighborhood, I do not believe it's rough.

Granted, Ansel to 105 is vastly different than the rest of the neighborhood, it's still not rough in my eyes.

[kayteeohh]

Beautiful photos. I love the area and wish there were more like it around that people could come to and enjoy near Cleveland. Thank you for sharing them

[tedolph]

Based on your photos only, the Gardens are better maintained than they were in the 70's and 80's.  I wonder if the busts couldn't be replaced with fiberglass replicas? That would deter theft.  I think it would be foolish considering the area and the impossibility of securing a large site like that to replace them with bronze.

[edale]

Great looking park!

[Etheostoma Caeruleum]

Before I forget, nice photos.  It nice to get photos of the Eastside.

You are right in saying that part of the blame is on the nationalities taking care of the gardens.  But a do believe that the surrounding neighborhood is still very rough.  Yes the area a couple streets away from the gardens is nice but you go 3 blocks out and your are in some of the roughest neighborhoods in Cleveland.  Just look at how many statues have been stolen from the gardens.  And I even saw a couple of people smoking weed in one of the gardens.

I think that in order to have more investment in the park from national groups that have to know that there statues won't get stolen. 

Not part. ALL

Hell people smoke weed everywhere, I'm not saying that as an excuse, but that happens everywhere and I hate drug use.  Secondly, the groups are suppose to maintain and secure.  They are not doing that.  Lets go back in time to the 70's when many of the support groups that maintained the gardens went broke or disbanded.  Who was out there cleaning the gardens?  My relatives and many of their neighbors.  My grand mother is probably in the gardens right now.

Yes, you are correct and I agree.......they're supposed to maintain them...But at the same time.... idiots are not supposed to vandalize them either!

By the way... I look at the bust/head statues and imagine them starting to sing.. "Grim Grinning Ghosts!"

What has that got to do with the neighborhood?  The those that have vandalized the area are mainly not residents.  As part of the gardens are my grand parents front yard, they and many residents on the westside of the park have complained to the city, council, park department, CPD about safety, vandalism and perception.  Because when anything happens in the gardens it's immediately blamed or associated with the neighborhood.  The majority of thefts have been by those who do not live in the area.

Now that the area is ripe for growth and is family oriented, many people "talk" about creating a preservation or alliance for the park.

Your quick to come up with long solutions for other things parks, wildlife, green space and nature perseveres, where is solution for clean up and maintenance of the Gardens?

In addition, if the gardens are "so called" important to various nationalities/ethnic groups, they need to maintain them on a weekly/monthly basis instead of when they have a ceremony at their respective garden.  This is something that has frustrated residents for decades.  In the last couple of years they've got matching funding grants for maintenance, but it's not enough as the gardens are quite large.

Thanks for the great photos!  The metal "scrap" thieves have been a horrible plague in Cultural Gardens for a couple decades now, but looking at all the etched granite in your photos, it looks like some of the nationality groups have found a decent restoration strategy that has a better chance of being sustainable. It's pretty frustrating thinking of all the metal work, some of it one-of-a-kind that's been looted here over the years and liquidated for scrap value.

MTS, you may disagree, but that neighborhood is rough by most people's definitions.  I know it's not the worst in the city, but unless the CPD makes this stuff up, there is still a lot of nasty stuff goes down both east and west of the park.

Yes, as a person who has spent quite a bit of time in the gardens and adjacent neighborhood, probably more than anyone on this board, with exception to the two members I know that live in the neighborhood, I do not believe it's rough.

Granted, Ansel to 105 is vastly different than the rest of the neighborhood, it's still not rough in my eyes.

Sorry, but you're partly wrong....wrong, and double WRONG!

You're very right in that the gardens must be maintained by those who should be doing their maintenance, sponsors, ethnic groups or whatever the case appropriate and that applies..... however....dead wrong to act as though that just because they get vandalized it is because they're not being maintained. If I went our there and just finished refreshing the garden...then 3 hours later some trash comes out and litters, tags, and knocks over stones... How is this MY fault?

Also, how do you know that all that gets vandalized is not by those who live in the area? Where are your facts to back this up? I never said it WAS those who live in the area... I just stated the obvious; that it is wrong to vandalize the sites.

Secondly, you would not want to hear about my ideas for solutions. I can assure you they'd work, but you won't like them and such will start a whole new host of arguments, but shock fence wireing comes to mind...


One other thing...Many who maintain these gardens do not live in the neighborhood...come in when they can to do it. BUT, since they are a PART of the neighborhood...an enhancement of it, it should be the neighborhoods obligation to watch over them too. Afterall, you have some other people coming into this part of the city and making it look NICE for those who live there, but don't want to do their part in taking care of them too. Every bit of help counts.... You see litter..Pick it up! How many times have I cleaned up places where I did not live only to have some resident say "Ohhh..bless you..thank you".... Then I ask if they'd like to help...and they refuse!

[MyTwoSense]

Sorry, but you're partly wrong....wrong, and double WRONG!

You're very right in that the gardens must be maintained by those who should be doing their maintenance, sponsors, ethnic groups or whatever the case appropriate and that applies..... however....dead wrong to act as though that just because they get vandalized it is because they're not being maintained. If I went our there and just finished refreshing the garden...then 3 hours later some trash comes out and litters, tags, and knocks over stones... How is this MY fault?

Also, how do you know that all that gets vandalized is not by those who live in the area? Where are your facts to back this up? I never said it WAS those who live in the area... I just stated the obvious; that it is wrong to vandalize the sites.

Secondly, you would not want to hear about my ideas for solutions. I can assure you they'd work, but you won't like them and such will start a whole new host of arguments, but shock fence wireing comes to mind...


One other thing...Many who maintain these gardens do not live in the neighborhood...come in when they can to do it. BUT, since they are a PART of the neighborhood...an enhancement of it, it should be the neighborhoods obligation to watch over them too. Afterall, you have some other people coming into this part of the city and making it look NICE for those who live there, but don't want to do their part in taking care of them too. Every bit of help counts.... You see litter..Pick it up! How many times have I cleaned up places where I did not live only to have some resident say "Ohhh..bless you..thank you".... Then I ask if they'd like to help...and they refuse!

You're missing my point and it goes to your argument in every thread about basic up keep and maintenance, something the parks have not done.

Again, if you read my posts, you would see that I have several relatives that live in the immediate area.  My grand father proposed to my grand mother in the gardens AND part of the gardens is practically their front yard!

I know about certain things since relative are on community groups.  And as reported, many times the vandals come from other areas and/or the items purchased by those in other areas, some as far away as Dayton.

Many who maintain these gardens do live in the area, If not, then I all the people that my grandmother organized to clean up are a figment of my imagination!  My grand parents feel just like you about getting involved since the gardens have a personal impact.

[urbanforever]

I think we all want these gardens to be maintained and be noticed more frm the region and possibly the country because its great uniquenes.  I think that a collaborative effort would be needed to do this involving: the nationalities taking care of the gardens, the city of Cleveland, better security and better advertising possibily from UCI. 

[MuRrAy HiLL]

The Italian Garden has been getting more and more attention lately...probably due to the proximity of Little Italy.  For example, Opera is now being held there every year:http://realneo.us/content/bavissimo-joyce-mariana-italian-cultural-garden-foundation-northern-ohio-opera-league-and-op

With the next date being July 25: http://www.littleitalycleveland.com/home/hopping.html

[MyTwoSense]

My Gran told me they (the gardens) are trying to have the area national landmark designated.

Also if you check the individual gardens websites, you'll see they have a lot of events starting in May to increase use and increase visibility.

[Clueless,Ohio]

Nice thread. And nice work because there is a lot to photograph there.
Every time I drive through here I want to get out and take pictures.
The gardens and Rockefeller Park are looking better than they have in years. I remember reading once that much (80% or so) of the statuary and ornamentation was removed in the 60s/70s because of vandalism, etc.
Some of it is probably still in storage but there certainly has been a re-beautification of the gardens of late.
And new cultural gardens have been added like India and Azerbaijan. China's is up along the northern terminus of the park by CMA and it is stunning.

BTW, this is indeed part of the Azerbaijan garden.



But this one is from the neighboring Armenian garden which is still under construction, as far as I know.

[KJP]

Thanks for the photos.

The thefts make my stomach turn. I wonder how much it would cost to restore these stolen artworks with copper statues or busts, the run some hidden high-voltage electrodes up through the pedestal? That way the coronor can make the rounds each morning and remove the smoldering thieves from the gardens.

[Etheostoma Caeruleum]

Sorry, but you're partly wrong....wrong, and double WRONG!

You're very right in that the gardens must be maintained by those who should be doing their maintenance, sponsors, ethnic groups or whatever the case appropriate and that applies..... however....dead wrong to act as though that just because they get vandalized it is because they're not being maintained. If I went our there and just finished refreshing the garden...then 3 hours later some trash comes out and litters, tags, and knocks over stones... How is this MY fault?

Also, how do you know that all that gets vandalized is not by those who live in the area? Where are your facts to back this up? I never said it WAS those who live in the area... I just stated the obvious; that it is wrong to vandalize the sites.

Secondly, you would not want to hear about my ideas for solutions. I can assure you they'd work, but you won't like them and such will start a whole new host of arguments, but shock fence wireing comes to mind...


One other thing...Many who maintain these gardens do not live in the neighborhood...come in when they can to do it. BUT, since they are a PART of the neighborhood...an enhancement of it, it should be the neighborhoods obligation to watch over them too. Afterall, you have some other people coming into this part of the city and making it look NICE for those who live there, but don't want to do their part in taking care of them too. Every bit of help counts.... You see litter..Pick it up! How many times have I cleaned up places where I did not live only to have some resident say "Ohhh..bless you..thank you".... Then I ask if they'd like to help...and they refuse!

You're missing my point and it goes to your argument in every thread about basic up keep and maintenance, something the parks have not done.

Again, if you read my posts, you would see that I have several relatives that live in the immediate area.  My grand father proposed to my grand mother in the gardens AND part of the gardens is practically their front yard!

I know about certain things since relative are on community groups.  And as reported, many times the vandals come from other areas and/or the items purchased by those in other areas, some as far away as Dayton.

Many who maintain these gardens do live in the area, If not, then I all the people that my grandmother organized to clean up are a figment of my imagination!  My grand parents feel just like you about getting involved since the gardens have a personal impact.

MTS, this is actually a good thing what your grandparents are doing. All I am saying is that as much as we as neighbors hate cleaning up other's messes, sometimes it is necessary to keep a watch and look or we will lose the places to the bad stuff. We all have to help in some way. And while it may sound like a silly idea to some....I honestly thought of having some kind of invisible/underground wire fences that would give a potential vandal a shock to keep them away...  Much like a cattle fence/dog training fence. My only concern would be how to implement this technology and make it work...and how to not harm wildlife that may pass through the night. (they'd eventually learn to stay away) The current can be switched on at a certain time, then off.... A warning sign can warn of trespassers of the shock and enter at own risk.

[Clueless,Ohio]

I contend that these gardens are a million times better than they were in the 70s or 80s. Not perfect,yes. But a lot better. There is an effort to replace the missing, or simply removed, items. The entire park is worlds away from the way it was in the 1970s.

From the Cultural Gardens website http://blog.culturalgardens.org/ :
"Slovenian Cultural Garden’s replacement Ivan Cankar dedication, Friday, June 18, at 2 PM.  Members of the Slovenian Parlament in attendance along with local political leaders and Slovenian dignitaries.  Free.  Parking along East Blvd."

That was just this past Friday.
And if I'm not mistaken it went here (if anyone knows different please correct me):

[Etheostoma Caeruleum]

I agree.....Yes, they are a lot better. Making them even better and keeping them that way is naturally...an ongoing job.

"Follow up" is a concept I wish I could add to Cleveland's drinking water.

[MyTwoSense]

Sorry, but you're partly wrong....wrong, and double WRONG!

You're very right in that the gardens must be maintained by those who should be doing their maintenance, sponsors, ethnic groups or whatever the case appropriate and that applies..... however....dead wrong to act as though that just because they get vandalized it is because they're not being maintained. If I went our there and just finished refreshing the garden...then 3 hours later some trash comes out and litters, tags, and knocks over stones... How is this MY fault?

Also, how do you know that all that gets vandalized is not by those who live in the area? Where are your facts to back this up? I never said it WAS those who live in the area... I just stated the obvious; that it is wrong to vandalize the sites.

Secondly, you would not want to hear about my ideas for solutions. I can assure you they'd work, but you won't like them and such will start a whole new host of arguments, but shock fence wireing comes to mind...


One other thing...Many who maintain these gardens do not live in the neighborhood...come in when they can to do it. BUT, since they are a PART of the neighborhood...an enhancement of it, it should be the neighborhoods obligation to watch over them too. Afterall, you have some other people coming into this part of the city and making it look NICE for those who live there, but don't want to do their part in taking care of them too. Every bit of help counts.... You see litter..Pick it up! How many times have I cleaned up places where I did not live only to have some resident say "Ohhh..bless you..thank you".... Then I ask if they'd like to help...and they refuse!

You're missing my point and it goes to your argument in every thread about basic up keep and maintenance, something the parks have not done.

Again, if you read my posts, you would see that I have several relatives that live in the immediate area.  My grand father proposed to my grand mother in the gardens AND part of the gardens is practically their front yard!

I know about certain things since relative are on community groups.  And as reported, many times the vandals come from other areas and/or the items purchased by those in other areas, some as far away as Dayton.

Many who maintain these gardens do live in the area, If not, then I all the people that my grandmother organized to clean up are a figment of my imagination!  My grand parents feel just like you about getting involved since the gardens have a personal impact.

MTS, this is actually a good thing what your grandparents are doing. All I am saying is that as much as we as neighbors hate cleaning up other's messes, sometimes it is necessary to keep a watch and look or we will lose the places to the bad stuff. We all have to help in some way. And while it may sound like a silly idea to some....I honestly thought of having some kind of invisible/underground wire fences that would give a potential vandal a shock to keep them away...  Much like a cattle fence/dog training fence. My only concern would be how to implement this technology and make it work...and how to not harm wildlife that may pass through the night. (they'd eventually learn to stay away) The current can be switched on at a certain time, then off.... A warning sign can warn of trespassers of the shock and enter at own risk.

Well your idea is a lot "nicer" than my uncles'.  They think anyone desecrating the gardens should be shot!

[urbanforever]

My Gran told me they (the gardens) are trying to have the area national landmark designated.

Also if you check the individual gardens websites, you'll see they have a lot of events starting in May to increase use and increase visibility.

That would be wonderful for this to become a historic district!

[tedolph]

I think there is some change of attitudes in the neighborhood since the 70's.  I remember that the lagoon near 105 had to be drained each year to remove the refrigerators and other large appliances that had been dumped there!  It appeared that the locals really felt disconnected from regular society and hostile towards it.  I think that has changed.

[MyTwoSense]

I think there is some change of attitudes in the neighborhood since the 70's.  I remember that the lagoon near 105 had to be drained each year to remove the refrigerators and other large appliances that had been dumped there!  It appeared that the locals really felt disconnected from regular society and hostile towards it.  I think that has changed.

I don't remember that.
 
The people that live in the are many are employed by university circle institutions so it's in their best interest to take an active role in the cleaning, maintenance and promotion of the parks/gardens.

[originaljbw]

I think the best thing that could be done for the cultural gardens at this point is to close the road permanently. Re route all traffic down 105 or east blvd, and put a few small parking lots at the bottom of the "offramps" from MLK blvd up to neighborhood streets. Turn the road itself into a premier walking/bike path and add some more signs pointing out interesting features.

To me the great arches made by the bridges that run over the park look like fantastic summer outdoor theatre venues. 

[Etheostoma Caeruleum]

^ Nice idea. I like it. The only thing that concerns me about the parking lots suggestion is transients using them as a hangout...and means to discard rubbish such as the common sight plastic soft drink bottles half full pitched to the ground...McDonald's/fast food litter and 40 Oz. alcohol containers, etc..etc...

[CleveChiNola]

This is a pie in the sky idea, but maybe the board can help me flesh this out into an actionable plan.  Unless we all think its not feasible.

I was reading about the games in Germany, and realizing that people from all over the world will be representing their countries at the Gay Games.  It got me thinking, we can use the games to highlight and possibly bring back some grandeur to the Cultural Gardens along MLK.

When my Dad came here in the 40's, he spent a few months in NYC, but he said the Cultural Gardens was the most beautiful thing he has ever seen.  "Nothing in New York came even close"

Maybe we can round up the ethnic gays with the good gardening skills to work some magic.  I just think it could be a knock your socks off type of welcome for athletes coming in from around the world.

[Clueless,Ohio]

^This is a great idea. I hope there is some focus of some sort on these "gardens of the World", it would seem like a given for an international event.

[Clevelover]

What a beautiful asset these gardens are to this great city! It is such a shame to see some items missing and some gardens neglected. But these gardens are still a great place to visit and a valuable jewel in Cleveland's crown!