Market size. Tv/Radio/market area

[unusualfire]

I found this interesting.

http://www.arbitron.com/downloads/redbook_fa08.pdf

Some markets seems much smaller than it is and others seems much larger than it is. Eg. Orlando, Fla 3.7 million

[Weedrose]

Yeah, Nielsen counts the Cincinnati DMA at about 34th.  We are very close to Columbus.

[Hts121]

I wonder why the top 100 list combines Cleveland with Akron for 3.2 mill, but not Cincy with Dayton which would have been 2.9 mill?  I would think that Dayton is as connected to Cincy as Akron is to Cleveland... and both are about equidistant from their bigger counterparts, no?

 

[X]

Are the part of the same media market?  That's what this is measuring.

[ColDayMan]

I wonder why the top 100 list combines Cleveland with Akron for 3.2 mill, but not Cincy with Dayton which would have been 2.9 mill?  I would think that Dayton is as connected to Cincy as Akron is to Cleveland... and both are about equidistant from their bigger counterparts, no?

 

Dayton is way less connected to Cincinnati than Akron is to Cleveland.  Dayton (well, the "Miami Valley") has always been independent from Cincinnati.  Most people in Dayton don't know anything about Cincinnati and vice-versa.

[MyTwoSense]

I wonder why the top 100 list combines Cleveland with Akron for 3.2 mill, but not Cincy with Dayton which would have been 2.9 mill?  I would think that Dayton is as connected to Cincy as Akron is to Cleveland... and both are about equidistant from their bigger counterparts, no?

 

Because that is the Nielsen ratings and it share reports are very difficult.  and different for tv, radio, print & internet.
 
Each category uses different information to determine "market share".
 
Some information comes from the box and some from viewers/readers that fill out journals. that information is submitted at different time and with handwritten information, the chance for "boo-boos" is great.
 
 

[C-Dawg Njaim]

I wonder why the top 100 list combines Cleveland with Akron for 3.2 mill, but not Cincy with Dayton which would have been 2.9 mill?  I would think that Dayton is as connected to Cincy as Akron is to Cleveland... and both are about equidistant from their bigger counterparts, no?

Very simple, Akron lost its TV stations, at least partly due to it being within range of Cleveland. Cleveland news covers Akron news. Akron is known as one of the largest urban areas without major TV affiliates. It used to be a television market, but not anymore. I actually did a thread a long time ago on this.

Dayton is way less connected to Cincinnati than Akron is to Cleveland.  Dayton (well, the "Miami Valley") has always been independent from Cincinnati.  Most people in Dayton don't know anything about Cincinnati and vice-versa.

Dayton has maintained most of its TV stations- NBC, CBS (Kettering), and ABC haver their own studios (Fox shares with ABC). Toledo remarkably still has the big four (NBC, CBS, ABC, and Fox) all in separate studios within the city limits. 20 more miles can make all the difference in the case of mid-size markets competing with larger markets.

If I'm not mistaken, many years ago, Akron had three big affiliates (I don't think it was ever a big four market). I'd have to do some digging to find out.

Due to downsizing, shared studios/shared services agreements are becoming quite common in mid-size markets. It's probably only a matter of time until Dayton and Toledo drop down to two major studios with shared services. This could eventually hit the largest markets too. Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Columbus are by no means safe from this happening. Television news is following the path of newspapers many decades ago. Eventually, there could just be one studio in each market broadcasting all big four affiliates.

Also, it's important to note that even if a market has all big four affiliates in separate studios, the level of content can vary greatly. For example, Toledo's CBS station creates seven live broadcasts a day (5am, 6am, 9am, 12pm, 5pm, 6pm, 11pm) while Toledo's Fox station creates two (4pm, 10pm). I think this plays out in some larger markets as well.

[MyTwoSense]

I wonder why the top 100 list combines Cleveland with Akron for 3.2 mill, but not Cincy with Dayton which would have been 2.9 mill?  I would think that Dayton is as connected to Cincy as Akron is to Cleveland... and both are about equidistant from their bigger counterparts, no?

Very simple, Akron lost its TV stations, at least partly due to it being within range of Cleveland's. Cleveland news covers Akron news.

Not knowing why this happened, I don't believe that is the entire case.  Since part of the equation is the number of TV sets in the area.
 
for instance, Phoenix is the 5/6 largerst metro area and cleveland is 12/13 (based on which list you look at) yet Cleveland's tv market share is 12 and phoenix's is 18.
 
There are a ton of variables and it give me an ef'n headache.

[C-Dawg Njaim]

Cleveland is a huge television market (the only top 20 player in Ohio) because it picks up Akron and basically is the de facto market for NE Ohio, a very heavily populated area. There's no competition since Akron is out of the picture, and Youngstown doesn't have the big four independent from each other (there are shared studios/services). Cleveland is the preferred choice, and this extends beyond broadcast range and into cable services. Basically, Cleveland runs sh!t in this state and all the big four have their own studios.

[C-Dawg Njaim]

Ohio Top 100 Television Markets (national rank, followed by population 12+, then television homes)

17. Cleveland: 3,268,300 / 1,524,930
32. Columbus: 1,961,100 / 925,840
34. Cincinnati: 1,960,300 / 915,570
64. Dayton: 1,014,800 / 483,790
73. Toledo: 904,600 / 425,890

[dmerkow]

For Cincy/Dayton - the answer is Butler County, while the distances are roughly equivalent. There is another MSA (Hamilton, Fairfield, Middletown) in between and until the 15 years Dayton was focused east toward Springfield and north toward Miami County. Cincinnati had a more NKY focus than north. Though back when markets and anti-trust were real issues in media, there was a lot of trading around as ClearChannel grew because there was the expectation that the markets would be merged in the near future. Obviously it is slowly happening - see Miami's NPR station being swallowed by Cincy Public Radio, while Cincinnati Public TV is now a part of Dayton Public TV.

[MyTwoSense]

Ohio Top 100 Television Markets (national rank, followed by population 12+, then television homes)

17. Cleveland: 3,268,300 / 1,524,930
32. Columbus: 1,961,100 / 925,840
34. Cincinnati: 1,960,300 / 915,570
64. Dayton: 1,014,800 / 483,790
73. Toledo: 904,600 / 425,890

Exactly what sources are you looking at?

[C-Dawg Njaim]

^The one posted at the top of this page.

[Weedrose]

Basically, once channel access begins to occur you will get a Cincy/Dayton DMA.

[ColDayMan]

^That'll never happen.  It will more like a Baltimore and Washington DC relationship (two separate markets, one CSA).

[Hts121]

Ohio Top 100 Television Markets (national rank, followed by population 12+, then television homes)

17. Cleveland: 3,268,300 / 1,524,930
32. Columbus: 1,961,100 / 925,840
34. Cincinnati: 1,960,300 / 915,570
64. Dayton: 1,014,800 / 483,790
73. Toledo: 904,600 / 425,890

Exactly what sources are you looking at?

Last page of the link I believe

[C-Dawg Njaim]

That'll never happen.  It will more like a Baltimore and Washington DC relationship (two separate markets, one CSA).

yes. What's more likely is what I talked about above. Dayton could lose more studios (as will many other cities), but it won't lose its whole television market (too far and too independent from Cincinnati). It will likely be a cold day in Ohio before Dayton turns into the next Akron in regards to television.

This has nothing to do with CSA. Boston-Providence are independent DMA's and that's a well-recognized CSA. Cincinnati-Dayton will remain similar to Boston-Providence and Detroit-Toledo-Windsor, you can bet on that. Of course there will be substantial market overlap, but the smaller cities will maintain independence. Just don't bet on any mid-size market keeping seperate studios much longer. This is an industry of downsizing.

[MyTwoSense]

Ohio Top 100 Television Markets (national rank, followed by population 12+, then television homes)

17. Cleveland: 3,268,300 / 1,524,930
32. Columbus: 1,961,100 / 925,840
34. Cincinnati: 1,960,300 / 915,570
64. Dayton: 1,014,800 / 483,790
73. Toledo: 904,600 / 425,890

Exactly what sources are you looking at?

Last page of the link I believe

You're looking at ONE source, many times you have to look at multiples sources.  Which is why I said earlier, cleveland is listed as number 12/13, plus the variables.

[C-Dawg Njaim]

^Exactly what sources are you looking at?

[MyTwoSense]

^Exactly what sources are you looking at?

The research in my office.  I do this for a living. 

[westakron1]

Growing up Akron only had one channel, channel 23 was an ABC affeliate that covered both Akron and Canton. I don't remember Canton having any of the big four. As was mentioned above the fact that Cleveland picks up Akron as well as Canton makes it such a large market.

As far as distance between the cities, I can get from downtown Akron  to downtown Cleveland in about 35 minutes and I drive the speed limit, so they're pretty close. What is the driving time between Dayton and Cincy?

[unusualfire]

City limit to city limit is about 30 mins. Downtown to downtown is about 45 mins.

[Hts121]

^Mapquest tells me that Cleveland to Akron is 39 miles and Cincy to Dayton is 49 miles.

[C-Dawg Njaim]

^that's driving miles. In broadcast, you'd worry most about "as the crow files" (drawing a straight line core to core).

edit: here's "as the crow flies" from infoplease:

Detroit-Toledo: 53 miles
Cleveland-Akron: 30.3 miles
Cincinnati-Dayton: 43.6 miles

[Loretto]

You probably want to take Lake Erie into consideration, and how it likely influences tower placement compared to landlocked circular metros.

[unusualfire]

One thing that's strange. Since they say Cincinnati/Dayton is not one TV market,  if the Bengals don't sale out tomorrow it will be blacked out in Dayton too. They are treating Dayton as the same market that Cincinnati is in.

[dmerkow]

Is Canton part of the Cleveland media market?

[metrocity]

Growing up Akron only had one channel, channel 23 was an ABC affeliate that covered both Akron and Canton. I don't remember Canton having any of the big four. As was mentioned above the fact that Cleveland picks up Akron as well as Canton makes it such a large market.

I remember that too before cable....there was Cleveland 3(NBC),5(ABC), and 8(CBS) and later 19(FOX) that you could easily get from the Akron Market and was the norm(8 an 19 later switched with some coup by FOX).  Akron Channel 23 was ABC and I only remember my Dad watching it for the Akron news...there was no reason to watch it instead of channel 5...it was a stepchild not a major channel.  Canton had a channel 61 or 67 I think, that was like channel 43(Lorain) and just played old re-runs(Yeah, Benny Hill!).   The Cleveland TV channels were always the major players.  Even my friend from Youngstown(Niles) said he grew up watching 3, 5 & 8 (which is weird because they were closer to Pittsburgh).

At the time, the markets were different for retail, so I remember a lot of Cleveland area stores that weren't in Akron that I had never seen as a child being advertised like grocery stores and discount stores.  May Dept Stores used to advertise all the time "Sale this Saturday at May Company and O'Neils" because they owned both stores in the 2 markets.  The markets were different but so close.

The strange thing is I think I watched PBS stuff on an Akron Channel, but I can't remember for the life of me what it was....WVIZ maybe....but that was even Cleveland!!

[Neville]

Growing up near Ytown, it was Channel 33, Fox 17/62, Channel 27, and another I can't remember. I remember that we could get Cleveland Channels, but my family never watched them because they weren't local. We couldn't get any Pittsburgh channels that I recall.

[X]

Does Akron still have Channel 55?