Topic: Moving to DC

[palijandro7]

However, one thing I think about is what about my kids?  The harsh reality is that Cleveland and Ohio have been declining for as long as I can remember.  Yes, there are little gains here and there, but they seem to be outweighed by the losses of: BP, Nat City, LTV, manufacturing stuff, etc.  Thus, do I give my kids a better opportunity by raising them in a more economically vibrant area?  What are the odds that my kids will have to move away bc there are not any jobs here outside the medical industry? 

I wouldn't choose a location based upon the eventual job prospects of my kids. I'd think about the experience that your kids would have in grade school and high school. Once they go off to college, they become extremely mobile (especially if they study beyond the undergrad level).

Now that is a response that is productive and what I expect from this site. 

[X]

Keep it civil, everyone!

[MyTwoSense]

Keep it civil, everyone!

Yes.  Behave, we don't want X to break out his magic stick!  LOL 

[Hts121]

What are the odds that my kids will have to move away bc there are not any jobs here outside the medical industry?  

This is the type of talk that just irks me.  No jobs outside of the medical industry?  Really?  I work outside of the medical industry.  So does my wife.  So does my sister and her husband.  So do all but one of my close friends.  My brother just graduated from college and he got a job outside of the medical industry.  A former employee of mine just graduated from law school and passed the bar and he got a job in the legal field in no way connected to the medical industry.  I just hired somebody to work under me and my job is not in the medical industry.  I would venture to guess that there are at least a few forumers on here that are employed in Cleveland and do not work in the medical industry.

Another thing that was understated is that Cleveland is not that cosmopolitan. 

Let's see.  World class museams.  World class performing arts, including arguably the best orchestra in the world and the second largest theatre district outside of NYC.  World class restaraunts.  Concentrated areas of vibrant nightlife (WHD, E 4th, Coventry, Tremont, Lakewood, etc.).  Three major professional sports teams.

What definition of cosmopolitan are you working under?

I am not trying to give you a hard time Palijandro.  I realize it is a rough climate for law school grads and I feel your frustration.  But that problem is in now way isolated to Cleveland, it is a nationwide issue.  And it is not just a hiring freeze... young associates are being let go everywhere.  Go get your feet wet in DC and I think you will find that your job prospects back here will be much better with a little experience under your belt.  Cleveland actually is pretty solid in the legal field with several of the biggest and most influential law firms based here.

[Three Cent Fare]

I think what all of you have said is very well put.  I am moving to DC bc the opportunity I have there, quite simply, does not exist here.  When it comes time for my lady-friend and I to start a family, we will likely move back. 

However, one thing I think about is what about my kids?  The harsh reality is that Cleveland and Ohio have been declining for as long as I can remember.  Yes, there are little gains here and there, but they seem to be outweighed by the losses of: BP, Nat City, LTV, manufacturing stuff, etc.  Thus, do I give my kids a better opportunity by raising them in a more economically vibrant area?  What are the odds that my kids will have to move away bc there are not any jobs here outside the medical industry?  I don't know.  I can't predict the future, and I can't predict the fate of Cleveland.  However, if recent history is any measure, it worries me.   

Another thing that was understated is that Cleveland is not that cosmopolitan.  Yes, there are tons of Eastern Euros, Italians, Irish, Jews, Blacks, etc, but a majority of those still in touch with their ancestral roots are getting ready to move on.  I like the freshness of meeting people from all over the place, and I feel Cleveland cannot compare with the aforementioned cities.

Anyways, I know this is an I Love Cleveland thread.  Thus, I'll end on a happy note: In no way am I excited about moving from the CLE to DC.  No offense to any lawyers on here, but too many of the people I have met remind me those a$$-holes in law school who are so competitive they cheer when you do poorly.  Also, few ethnic areas and, absurdly expensive. 
 

Your thought process is difficult to argue with.  But, my response is that the problems you listed (lack of economic vibrancy, not as cosmopolitan, etc.) operate as causes and symptoms simultaneously.  The region lacks jobs because it lacks a robust applicant pool; it lacks a robust applicant pool because it lacks jobs, and so on.  The only way that we are going to see the city and its surrounding area become something great again is if those of us who care (i.e. those who post on this site) stick around.  I understand that this is a lot to ask especially when your job takes you elsewhere, in your case D.C.  The sad reality is that if we don't stick around and take the steps to rebuild our once-vibrant communities, no one will.  My view may not be realistic; it requires a sacrifice that many don't want to make.  And though we love our city, we also love our families and, if lucky, our careers and must do what is best for their advancement, and often times that means leaving the region we love.  Obviously, any decision based on that criteria is not "wrong."

I guess what I am trying to say is that I only really disagree with your belief that raising your kids in Cleveland may not be the best idea regarding their futures.  I say if we stick around and devote our collective energy to rebuilding and investing in the city, we can, in time, reverse the course of our forty-year downward slide and provide them with the same opportunities thought only to be available in the boom cities (SF, DC, Chicago, NYC, Boston, Austin, etc.).

[MyTwoSense]

I think what all of you have said is very well put.  I am moving to DC bc the opportunity I have there, quite simply, does not exist here.  When it comes time for my lady-friend and I to start a family, we will likely move back. 

However, one thing I think about is what about my kids?  The harsh reality is that Cleveland and Ohio have been declining for as long as I can remember.  Yes, there are little gains here and there, but they seem to be outweighed by the losses of: BP, Nat City, LTV, manufacturing stuff, etc.  Thus, do I give my kids a better opportunity by raising them in a more economically vibrant area?  What are the odds that my kids will have to move away bc there are not any jobs here outside the medical industry?  I don't know.  I can't predict the future, and I can't predict the fate of Cleveland.  However, if recent history is any measure, it worries me.   

Another thing that was understated is that Cleveland is not that cosmopolitan.  Yes, there are tons of Eastern Euros, Italians, Irish, Jews, Blacks, etc, but a majority of those still in touch with their ancestral roots are getting ready to move on.  I like the freshness of meeting people from all over the place, and I feel Cleveland cannot compare with the aforementioned cities.

Anyways, I know this is an I Love Cleveland thread.  Thus, I'll end on a happy note: In no way am I excited about moving from the CLE to DC.  No offense to any lawyers on here, but too many of the people I have met remind me those a$$-holes in law school who are so competitive they cheer when you do poorly.  Also, few ethnic areas and, absurdly expensive. 
 

Your thought process is difficult to argue with.  But, my response is that the problems you listed (lack of economic vibrancy, not as cosmopolitan, etc.) operate as causes and symptoms simultaneously.  The region lacks jobs because it lacks a robust applicant pool; it lacks a robust applicant pool because it lacks jobs, and so on.  The only way that we are going to see the city and its surrounding area become something great again is if those of us who care (i.e. those who post on this site) stick around.  I understand that this is a lot to ask especially when your job takes you elsewhere, in your case D.C.  The sad reality is that if we don't stick around and take the steps to rebuild our once-vibrant communities, no one will.  My view may not be realistic; it requires a sacrifice that many don't want to make.  And though we love our city, we also love our families and, if lucky, our careers and must do what is best for their advancement, and often times that means leaving the region we love.  Obviously, any decision based on that criteria is not "wrong."

I guess what I am trying to say is that I only really disagree with your belief that raising your kids in Cleveland may not be the best idea regarding their futures.  I say if we stick around and devote our collective energy to rebuilding and investing in the city, we can, in time, reverse the course of our forty-year downward slide and provide them with the same opportunities thought only to be available in the former boom cities (SF, DC, Chicago, NYC, Boston, Austin, etc.).

[palijandro7]

It's amazing the excuses (I think it's more a matter of self convincing) that people feel they need to share about why they are leaving Cleveland. Not cosmopolitan enough? The majority of people in touch with their ancestoral roots are ready to move on? What the H? And this person is moving to DC? My company has their training facility there and although there are some good things in that town I can think of massive reasons why you wouldn't want to raise kids there but that's just my opinion. Lord just move on.

If Robert had read my post, he should have realized that I said I am moving to DC bc my job does not exist in Cleveland.  I clearly stated that I am not excited about the move.  Thus, his smug statement about "self-convincing" was completely ignorant and off-target.

Furthermore, I stated that I do not believe Cleveland is very cosmopolitan, and supported that assertion with my observation that many of the ethnic neighborhoods, and the people that comprised them, are dying off.  That is not a reason to move.  That is my observation (see the difference?). 

[X]

Fair enough.  Shall the discussion return to actual advice on DC neighborhoods and living now?  I don't see that a Cleveland vs DC thread helps you with the move at all.

[palijandro7]

What are the odds that my kids will have to move away bc there are not any jobs here outside the medical industry?   

This is the type of talk that just irks me.  No jobs outside of the medical industry?  Really?  I work outside of the medical industry.  So does my wife.  So does my sister and her husband.  So do all but one of my close friends.  My brother just graduated from college and he got a job outside of the medical industry.  A former employee of mine just graduated from law school and passed the bar and he got a job in the legal field in no way connected to the medical industry.  I just hired somebody to work under me and my job is not in the medical industry.  I would venture to guess that there are at least a few forumers on here that are employed in Cleveland and do not work in the medical industry.

Another thing that was understated is that Cleveland is not that cosmopolitan.

Let's see.  World class museams.  World class performing arts, including arguably the best orchestra in the world and the second largest theatre district outside of NYC.  World class restaraunts.  Concentrated areas of vibrant nightlife (WHD, E 4th, Coventry, Tremont, Lakewood, etc.).  Three major professional sports teams.

What definition of cosmopolitan are you working under?

I am not trying to give you a hard time Palijandro.  I realize it is a rough climate for law school grads and I feel your frustration.  But that problem is in now way isolated to Cleveland, it is a nationwide issue.  And it is not just a hiring freeze... young associates are being let go everywhere.  Go get your feet wet in DC and I think you will find that your job prospects back here will be much better with a little experience under your belt.  Cleveland actually is pretty solid in the legal field with several of the biggest and most influential law firms based here.

I wasn't trying to slam Cleveland.  I think I made it very clear that I love it here and that I am not excited about moving.  I agree with everything you said about museums, night-life, affordability etc.  In regards to the medical industry, I was using hyperbole.

But I just don't find Cleveland cosmopolitan.  Maybe this is better-suited for another thread.  Rarely do you walk around the city and hear people conversing in other languages (maybe MTS yelling at his relatives(?)).  You don't have many of the little cafes, visitors, etc.  Call this a stupid definition of "cosmopolitan" if you want.  I can't accurately describe what I am trying to say, but I know what I mean.  Sports, especially the dawg pound, is not in it (not to sound elitist, just not my cup of tea).  Please keep in mind this is certainly NOT the reason I am leaving.

I think what all of you have said is very well put.  I am moving to DC bc the opportunity I have there, quite simply, does not exist here.  When it comes time for my lady-friend and I to start a family, we will likely move back. 

However, one thing I think about is what about my kids?  The harsh reality is that Cleveland and Ohio have been declining for as long as I can remember.  Yes, there are little gains here and there, but they seem to be outweighed by the losses of: BP, Nat City, LTV, manufacturing stuff, etc.  Thus, do I give my kids a better opportunity by raising them in a more economically vibrant area?  What are the odds that my kids will have to move away bc there are not any jobs here outside the medical industry?  I don't know.  I can't predict the future, and I can't predict the fate of Cleveland.  However, if recent history is any measure, it worries me.   

Another thing that was understated is that Cleveland is not that cosmopolitan.  Yes, there are tons of Eastern Euros, Italians, Irish, Jews, Blacks, etc, but a majority of those still in touch with their ancestral roots are getting ready to move on.  I like the freshness of meeting people from all over the place, and I feel Cleveland cannot compare with the aforementioned cities.

Anyways, I know this is an I Love Cleveland thread.  Thus, I'll end on a happy note: In no way am I excited about moving from the CLE to DC.  No offense to any lawyers on here, but too many of the people I have met remind me those a$$-holes in law school who are so competitive they cheer when you do poorly.  Also, few ethnic areas and, absurdly expensive. 
 

Your thought process is difficult to argue with.  But, my response is that the problems you listed (lack of economic vibrancy, not as cosmopolitan, etc.) operate as causes and symptoms simultaneously.  The region lacks jobs because it lacks a robust applicant pool; it lacks a robust applicant pool because it lacks jobs, and so on.  The only way that we are going to see the city and its surrounding area become something great again is if those of us who care (i.e. those who post on this site) stick around.  I understand that this is a lot to ask especially when your job takes you elsewhere, in your case D.C.  The sad reality is that if we don't stick around and take the steps to rebuild our once-vibrant communities, no one will.  My view may not be realistic; it requires a sacrifice that many don't want to make.  And though we love our city, we also love our families and, if lucky, our careers and must do what is best for their advancement, and often times that means leaving the region we love.  Obviously, any decision based on that criteria is not "wrong."

I guess what I am trying to say is that I only really disagree with your belief that raising your kids in Cleveland may not be the best idea regarding their futures.  I say if we stick around and devote our collective energy to rebuilding and investing in the city, we can, in time, reverse the course of our forty-year downward slide and provide them with the same opportunities thought only to be available in the boom cities (SF, DC, Chicago, NYC, Boston, Austin, etc.).

In sum, I completely agree.  I do feel like I am part of the problem by leaving.  Yet, on the other hand, should I really take some job that, at least I think, I am over-qualified for just to be able to stay here?  I have a very good opportunity in DC that will make me much more marketable when I return. 

Anyways, I wasn't trying to rip Cleveland.  I was just responding to a post in which it was alluded to that I was leaving for a bigger stage, which is not true in any way, shape, or form.   

[palijandro7]

yah; I'm finished.

RETURN TO SUGGESTIONS ON APARTMENT HUNTING, PLEASE.

[BelievelandD1]

I find it hard to disagree with Pali.  I love Cleveland and know he loves Cleveland, but our neighborhoods are tremendously different than the ones of DC and Chicago.  Im sure he will enjoy DC, and spread a good word about Cleveland while he is there.  Lets not deny reality.  Our best neighborhoods still have plenty of work to be done. 

Now, to stay on topic...considered Foggy Bottom?  Lots of GW peeps, but nice views of the river and such.

[sfbob]

Am I on Cleveland.bomb or what?

[KJP]

The grass is always greener on the other side. We all need to explore to see if the grass really is greener. And many of us need to satisfy our restless urges when we're young. But as you get older your views, priorities and desires do change. Many times you'll find what you were looking for is right where you left it.

[willyboy]

Palijandro, Macomb Street if its near Connecticut is a really good location, and safer than the others you mentioned.  Yeah the transfer, but not bad.

More on what you said yesterday, I agree that in lots of ways it has been a hard year to be a Clevelander that loves his city (seems like for every step forward there is a step and sometimes 2 backwards), and it isn’t such a bad idea to see what other places are like.  DC is a good choice for opportunities and experiences for young people (there are tons of young overly ambitious people here, ugh) that may not be available everywhere, but if you are looking for something more cosmopolitan, I’m surprised you are not going to New York, Chicago or even Philly.  DC has a history and reputation for not being very cosmopolitan (and lacking non-tourist culture) that it is just now somewhat shedding.  DC does have the city atmosphere and what seems like constant activity that Cleveland seems to sometimes lack, but I think you will be surprised to see for yourself some of the things that are lacking (especially being Italian) which I tried to hint at this in previous posts).  It’s as if Cleveland’s strengths are everything that DC lacks.  I started a somewhat angry list that I was going to post last night but lost my connection!

Anyway, for as “International” as it is, the offerings are pretty limited.  The dozens of people that I have introduced to Cleveland that live here, thought Cleveland seemed more International and cosmopolitan than DC, particularly the eastern European ones (since DC is overwhelmingly International when it comes to Guatemalans, El Salvadorians etc…) you’ll see what I mean after you’re here for a short time.  I will say that DC is changing fast, and that recently many more people are putting down stakes here, which will end up making a big difference (since nearly everyone doesn’t have ties here) which you could previously tell by there ambivalence to things outside of their career.

As for a place to raise a family, I’m pretty sure you’ll find that Northeast Ohio is about as good as it gets for that, again I think you will see for yourself after being here for a short time. 
Ultimately DC has been a great experience for me, but the positives have just not outweighed the negatives, thus I’ m looking to move back to Cleveland, I somewhat delayed it recently because of the sometimes heartbreaking feeling that it’s a sinking ship, but then on a different day you realize it is still great, and on the cusp of many more great things.  One thing that you should also remember is that it is much easier to make an impact in somewhere like Cleveland than D.C., an example being the recent bid to host the gay games, and (the city blowing DC away), it only took someone in Cleveland a good idea…...  Well good luck.

Oh and you may want to get your Italian fix before you move here.                               

[Hts121]

The grass is always greener on the other side. We all need to explore to see if the grass really is greener. And many of us need to satisfy our restless urges when we're young. But as you get older your views, priorities and desires do change. Many times you'll find what you were looking for is right where you left it.

Couldn't agree more.  Everyone needs to exlore a little bit and the best time to do it is when you are young and mobile.  I did.  But now that I am older and have a family, I am back for good.

[MyTwoSense]

The grass is always greener on the other side. We all need to explore to see if the grass really is greener. And many of us need to satisfy our restless urges when we're young. But as you get older your views, priorities and desires do change. Many times you'll find what you were looking for is right where you left it.

 

[palijandro7]

Jesus, how many times do I have to say that I AM NOT EXCITED ABOUT THE MOVE.  How many times do I have to say I am leaving bc a job I am passionate about only exists there?    So please, while I appreciate the help, I don't need the condescending "the grass is always greener."  What warrants anyone to say that?  I have merely said DC offers some things that Cleveland doesn't.  Thus, it also follows that Cleveland obviously offers many things DC doesn't.  I'm not sitting here saying how cool I am bc I am moving, nor am I giving the usual "I can't wait to get out of Cleveland BS." 

Thus, let your imaginations run wild about my true motives (maybe I am fleeing the police?) for leaving, but I really don't care to hear them.

Will, thanks for the insight on Macomb St.