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MyTwoSense
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« on: May 12, 2008, 08:31:31 AM » |
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A knee jerk fed ex response. Look at the real problem, if you're going get rid of people, start with yourself. It's got to be a top to bottom review!
Hagan touts cut in elected offices He'd consolidate county departments Monday, May 12, 2008 Joe Guillen Plain Dealer Reporter Cuyahoga County will have six fewer elected officials -- and will consolidate duplicated jobs to reduce spending -- if Commissioner Tim Hagan gets his way. Hagan, who has favored reforming county government, said he is ready to make another push because the current structure is outdated. He said the county's shrinking population and declining government revenue demand a change. More at http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1210581027265890.xml&coll=2
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Ipsilon
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« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2008, 04:14:11 PM » |
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Can you all help a political newbie (as far as Cleveland and Cuyahoga County is concerned -- okay, as far as all politics are concerned) out here? Hagan always seemed like a good guy. Is he just as bad as the others, or is he the black sheep in the Comissioner family?
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MyTwoSense
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« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2008, 04:17:56 PM » |
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Honestly, I think PLJ is the only commish with sense. Hagan is a whipping boy. Dimora is just a fat ass.
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Ipsilon
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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2008, 05:03:06 PM » |
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Hagan is a whipping boy. Well, at least he's married to a starship captain.  Thanks.
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3231
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« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2008, 11:53:34 PM » |
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A knee jerk fed ex response. Look at the real problem, if you're going get rid of people, start with yourself. It's got to be a top to bottom review!
Hagan touts cut in elected offices
He'd consolidate county departments
Monday, May 12, 2008
Joe Guillen
Plain Dealer Reporter
Cuyahoga County will have six fewer elected officials -- and will consolidate duplicated jobs to reduce spending -- if Commissioner Tim Hagan gets his way.
Hagan, who has favored reforming county government, said he is ready to make another push because the current structure is outdated. He said the county's shrinking population and declining government revenue demand a change.
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1210581027265890.xml&coll=2
Still, there are so many elected offices that should not be elected. Who really knows who would make a good coroner or engineer?? We are lucky to have a very good engineer right now, but I have no clue whatsoever if the coroner is doing a good job. On the other hand, allowing all these people to be appointed also has some great risks.
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audidave
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2008, 10:54:02 PM » |
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Interesting article by the PD.. There's a link to the audio in that story. Reading the article then listening to Dimora talk seem almost totally separate. The reporter is definitely caught up in trying to "catch" Dimora. The audio starts really slow but then Dimora picks up the pace. Interesting how Dimora screams he's not running for Commissioner again but it doesn't appear in the story. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/05/dimora_against_county_reform_s.htmlDimora against county reform; says GOP and Plain Dealer in league against Democrats Posted by Joe Guillen May 20, 2008 20:02PM Categories: News Impact Previous story • Dimora criticizes Plain Dealer reporters for asking about court(sic) employee. Cuyahoga County Commissioner Jimmy Dimora on Tuesday blasted a plan to reform local government, even saying the idea -- proposed by a fellow commissioner -- exposes a plot to dismantle the local Democratic Party that he chairs. CHOPPED
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E Rocc
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« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2008, 07:03:23 AM » |
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Tim Hagan: Republican mole. Who woulda thought?
Every time I see DiMora's "official" picture in the paper, I wonder how he could be smiling in light of the Reagan Administration's latest proposals. Of course, a current one would contain more chins than the San Francisco telephone directory....
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StrapHanger
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« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2008, 06:38:53 PM » |
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Interesting how Dimora screams he's not running for Commissioner again but it doesn't appear in the story.
I interpreted what he said as meaning that he's not governing with an eye on getting reelected, not that he wasn't actually going to run for reelection (we should all be so lucky).
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CorySnyder
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« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2009, 05:18:46 PM » |
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I did a search and surprisingly could not find a thread on this topic. Can anyone help me to understand what the issues are here? I feel like I have picked up bits and pieces here and there such as the main proponents for reform of the county government are the republicans and African Americans are against reform as it would involve redistricting which would potentially lessen the impact of their votes.
I will say this, I am a true and true democrat and I personally don't see any time in the near future that the county will be run by republicans as cuyahoga county is a pretty strong democrat county. But aren't our democratic leaders in this county making us look bad (i.e. McFaul, Earle Turner (is he an elected democrat?), the commissioners with the "bungling" of the med mart, not to mention the criminal investigation, etc.)?
Many of our democratic leaders are coming out against the reform (Jackson, Fudge, etc.). So I guess my question is, why should I be against reforming the county government?
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CBC
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« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2009, 08:08:13 AM » |
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I am not as well versed as others here on OU of the sins of Cuyahoga County but I am for a reform of some sort. There are too many fiefdoms in the county governmemnt that really don't answer to anyone especially the citizens, this has led to the rampant corruption and waste. I really don't think that it really is a Democratic or Republican issue. The real issue is that the current political machine has been in power too long and they felt they didn't have to answer to anyone because there has been nobody locally seriously challenging for power.
I have not developed an opinion yet about the proposal floating around about a single elected county executive and a elected council.
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Qwios
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Cuyahoga County reform backers looking for money by Mark Naymik Wednesday June 17, 2009, 4:00 PM The group of public officials and civic leaders behind the effort to restructure Cuyahoga County government are scrambling to raise money. The group, which includes county prosecutor Bill Mason and Parma Heights Mayor Martin Zanotti, has raised just $20,000 as of Tuesday. The group is soliciting from civic leaders another $35,000 by Friday and an additional $50,000 by early July. It hopes to raise at least $100,000 to collect the 45,000 voter signatures needed by mid July to get the reform plan on the ballot. More at http://www.cleveland.com/naymik/index.ssf/2009/06/cuyahoga_county_reform_backers.html
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Foraker
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« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2009, 10:30:46 AM » |
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I am not as well versed as others here on OU of the sins of Cuyahoga County but I am for a reform of some sort. There are too many fiefdoms in the county governmemnt that really don't answer to anyone especially the citizens, this has led to the rampant corruption and waste. I really don't think that it really is a Democratic or Republican issue. The real issue is that the current political machine has been in power too long and they felt they didn't have to answer to anyone because there has been nobody locally seriously challenging for power.
I have not developed an opinion yet about the proposal floating around about a single elected county executive and a elected council.
I agree with your sentiments. I believe that democracy requires participation, or money will talk louder than We The People. The current corruption scandal probably went on for as long as it did because not enough people thought they could make a difference, didn't vote, didn't pay attention to commissioners' and committee meetings, etc. How do we get people to be engaged in their governance? Someone once said that any time you have a representative who represents more than about 5,000 people, the people in that district lose the feeling that they have an advocate for THEM, someone that they can personally talk to who will go to bat for them and their problems. Can anyone cite any research along this line to back that sort of thing up? Regardless of what that number is, I think that is the kind of feeling that will make people want to hang on to THEIR government in Solon or Lakewood, etc. How do we create a more efficient form of government in a metropolitan area like Cuyahoga County or greater Cleveland metro such that everyone will still "feel" that there is someone who will go to bat for them personally on an issue and also will encourage more citizens to be engaged in their government? That seems to be a difficult challenge. We could create a large legislative body with small-district "representatives" and former-city/suburb-type-area "senators" that works with an elected executive. But paying all of those people could be expensive, and if it's too big does your voice really get heard? And would there still be too much local-interest-only focus? Or maybe there should be some things that should remain very local and other things that will be delegated to the larger region -- zoning, transportation, and economic development come to mind as regional issues. What local issues would remain? School maintenance? Which streets get paved with the road budget provided by the regional government? I'm really not sure how such a system would work. Again, how do we create a more efficient form of government in a metropolitan area like Cuyahoga County or greater Cleveland metro such that everyone will still "feel" that there is someone who will go to bat for them personally on an issue and also will encourage more citizens to be engaged in their government?
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E Rocc
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« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2009, 03:48:09 AM » |
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I haven't found the thread (if it exists) about the proposal to elect a county legislature of sorts, along with the county executive and prosecutor.
I'd change it to electing solely the legislature/council. They select the executive, who has to have either a masters in public or business administration or at least four years service as a mayor or city manager for an entity larger than 5,000 population.
Out of the suburbs in my pre-move area, the one that's best run is clearly Bedford, which has a city manager form of government.
I'd also make a somewhat radical proposal. Add two members to the county council. They are elected by those who paid income and/or property tax in the county during the previous year, but do not live in the county.
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cd-cleveland
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« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2009, 12:36:16 PM » |
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The county is concerned that the change under Issue 6 will be super expensive to make. I was told upwards of about half a million dollars. That's in a time when the county is really struggling and making cuts all over.
Positions that will go from elected to appointed will be paid double what they are now. So that positions like the coroner and engineer will parallel what they are in other counties. I was told that we can likely expect to pay an appointed coroner just short of $200k a year, as opposed to the current $80k or $90k.
Also, there's no space in the county administration building for council members to have their own offices. Eleven councilmembers would share only two staffers.
I'm planning to vote no on Issues 5 and 6. This needs to be more of a citizen-driven, grassroots effort whereby the people of this county have the opportunity to voice their opinions. I feel like we should take the time to do this right instead of change for the sake of changing.
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jar3232
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« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2009, 09:22:31 AM » |
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I'm planning to vote no on Issues 5 and 6. This needs to be more of a citizen-driven, grassroots effort whereby the people of this county have the opportunity to voice their opinions. I feel like we should take the time to do this right instead of change for the sake of changing. I am very confused by 5/6. I feel that the current system isn't that bad, just some of the people in it are. CD is there any negative to voting down both of these proposals?
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cd-cleveland
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« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2009, 12:03:28 AM » |
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^ If 5 and 6 both fail, it's back to the drawing board with reform.
I have a feeling that 6 is going to pass, though.
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punch
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« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2009, 02:07:56 PM » |
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Now that 6 has passed, who does everyone want to see run for county executive?
I am hoping for Chris Ronayne. Any other ideas?
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X
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2009, 03:13:58 PM » |
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I'd was thinking PLJ, but Ronayne would be great.
My other thought is that I'm not happy that this new arrangement will inject more parochialism into our political process via a county ward system- I would have preferred at large councilpeople.
Otherwise, I like it.
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EagleFan
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« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2009, 03:55:52 PM » |
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I would have voted no if I had a vote, but the "ward" system made sense vs at-large. You can't have all the representatives coming from one city. The outlying cities in the county need representation.
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punch
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« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2009, 04:15:16 PM » |
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^too late now, but a mix of at large and ward reps is what I would have liked.
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EagleFan
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« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2009, 04:17:48 PM » |
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That's OK too. And it's not too late, they can always modify it.
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McCleveland
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« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2009, 04:20:37 PM » |
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yeah this can definitely be tweaked over time... but I think it is a HUGE step in the right direction.
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Bradley
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« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2009, 07:15:40 PM » |
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In my opinion, the true advantage to the new plan is a more spread out representation.
Otherwise, if people thought that they were 'kicking out the bums' with this plan, they will be highly surprised. I'm sure we'll see a lot of familiar faces come January 2011 when this is all in place. PLJ could be back. I can see William Denihan throwing his hat in the ring, since he has the experience and doesn't stink of corruption.
There will also be a salary issue. The sum of the present commissioners' salaries will be less than the sum of the Executive Board's salaries.
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Oldmanladyluck
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« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2009, 07:56:46 PM » |
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I could definitely see Ronayne running. One of the reasons why he didn't run for mayor this time around was that his wife is expecting, and he wanted to spend time with her. I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to run, and I would more than likely vote for him.
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Hts44121
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« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2009, 09:51:43 AM » |
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The way I viewed Issue 6 was a better system of checks and balances for the County. The 3 commissioners simply had too much unchecked power/discretion.
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