Topic: Ohio: Census 2010 News & Discussion

[Oldmanladyluck]

Can't say that Cleveland's numbers are unexpected.  My work requires me to be in the inner east side neighborhoods- and the amount of devastation within the last ten years is both amazing and sad.  Oh well...

[ColDayMan]

Yeah, none of these numbers should be surprising for anyone.

[natininja]

Ouch.

[unusualfire]

Don't expand.. You lose.

[jjakucyk]

It's not terribly surprising, but unfortunate that so many are juuuuuust below the next hundred thousand mark.  Cincinnati has for a while been at 300-something thousand, but now it's 200-something.  The same goes for Cleveland, Akron, and Toledo.  It's like how something that costs $2.99 is really not appreciably cheaper than $3.00, but all people see is the 2 and the 3 and that affects their perception markedly.  Suddenly Ohio looks like much more of a backwater. 

[C-Dawg]

Data for Ohio show that the five most populous incorporated places and their 2010 Census counts are Columbus, 787,033; Cleveland, 396,815; Cincinnati, 296,943; Toledo, 287,208; and Akron, 199,110. Columbus grew by 10.6 percent since the 2000 Census. Cleveland decreased by 17.1 percent, Cincinnati decreased by 10.4 percent, Toledo decreased by 8.4 percent, and Akron decreased by 8.3 percent.

Holy sh!t! Other than Toledo (I was almost right on the money with my estimate), that's even worse than I expected. I'm completely shocked by Cleveland and Cincinnati. I never thought Cleveland would drop below 400k or Cincinnati below 300k. This is terrible.

Akron is kind of surprising too. I didn't expect it to drop below 200k. This is heartbreaking. Everything except Columbus was in freefall over the decade. We crossed just about every negative threshold we could cross. The effects of this will be far-reaching when it comes to federal funding and urban political clout.

[ClevelandOhio]

Damn!

[archangel]

Devastating.

[ClevelandOhio]

When can we see the neighborhood breakdowns?

And im surprised Cleveland dropped below 400,000
And didn't they estimate Cincinnati with a small gain?

[skorasaurus]

When can we see the neighborhood breakdowns?

And im surprised Cleveland dropped below 400,000
And didn't they estimate Cincinnati with a small gain?

It may be inside the a 36mb zip file on their FTP site - http://www2.census.gov/census_2010/01-Redistricting_File--PL_94-171/  [can't check, at work right now]

Otherwise, no later than April 1st.

[Sherman Cahal]

For Cincinnati: Such a shocker, considering how much we were anticipating to gain - not a lot, but something to reverse the 40 year trend. I wasn't expecting to see such a steep loss.

[C-Dawg]

^Hell, they estimated Toledo at 316k after a census challenge! I knew those estimates were too rosy because I saw what was happening on the streets. I saw huge increases in abandonment and a general thinning of the residential neighborhoods. Too often people see only what they want to see (downtown, core neighborhoods).

Cincinnati is downright shocking though. Almost every estimate model showed it had leveled off above 300k. To drop below 300k is gut-wrenching. No one saw that coming.

[unusualfire]

^Well i saw all the for rent signs in the city. Something had to give. It's knocked down but not knocked out.

[I Went West]

Under 400k? Wow...just wow.

[ClevelandOhio]

I hope this will be the end of the pain for our cities. It sucks when you realize that we wont live to see that many censuses

[lewarctj]

Looks like Pittsburgh dropped 8.6% to 305K.  I was curious in their numbers since so many people like to compare how Pittsburgh
has done so much better the Cleveland, etc. etc.  Looks like Pittsburgh continues to feel the same sort of hurt that we feel here in Ohio.

[ClevelandOhio]

A big problem is that people, even our own, have such a negative opinion about our cities. I just heard from a friend that goes to OSU that people down there talk a lot of sh!t on Cleveland. The scariest thing was that his roommate from Ada didn't even know Cleveland was on the lake. I think our schools should teach more of Ohio history and focus on the city it is in. Let people know all the good that has happened and the achievements of our cities. And just look at our newspaper websites like the PD. The posters sadly have the view of the majority of the people in these areas.

[C-Dawg]

Published: 3/9/2011 - Updated: 28 minutes ago

Census data shows Toledo population loss
BLADE STAFF

Toledo’s population has dropped below 300,000, according to the release of new numbers from the U.S. Census Bureau Wednesday. Toledo has a population of 287,208, a reduction of 8.4 percent since the last census, of 313,784 in 2000. The new census figures mean Ohio will lose two congressional districts, from 18 to 16. Ohio’s population grew slightly, from 11,353,140 to 11,536,504 in the 2010 census, but not as much as other states in the South and West that will see an increase in congressional representation when the census data is used to redraw congressional district lines.

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2011/03/09/Census-data-shows-Toledo-population-loss.html

Check out the county map. It shows some huge sprawl gains. So basically what happened were urban losses coupled with suburban gains all across the state (even Toledo's collar counties showed some slight gains, despite their weak economies). This make these losses even tougher to swallow:

Census County Map
http://2010.census.gov/2010census/data/

[I Went West]

I hope this will be the end of the pain for our cities. It sucks when you realize that we wont live to see that many censuses

I think we all hope this is the end, however looking at the census numbers...it sadly looks like it will just be getting worse. A 17% drop is just something, especially after the declines seem in the mid-late 20th century. I don't think anyone was expecting a 17% drop.

Sadly, these numbers will bring nothing but bad publicity to the city of Cleveland. Bad publicity causes businesses to stay away, ect. It's a vicious cycle.

[tradition7]

Until Cleveland (& Cincinnati) become "cool" places to live, this will most likely continue to happen.  College students want to go places like Chicago, Denver, Cali, NY, Florida, etc and I don't see the trend changing anytime soon.  I've met many kids who grew up in the Cleveland metro area who said they don't ever plan on going back.  The reputation is killing Cleveland in more ways than one.  I think the "Cle tourism video" along with some other things really shined a bad light on Cleveland with regards to college kids whose opinions are very easily swayed. 

[Sherman Cahal]

But you need more than people who perceive a city as being "cool" to move into your inner cities. You need more than college graduates, yuppies and hippies moving in. You need working class folks - the middle class, to fill in the inner city, from (Cincinnati-based) Avondale to Over-the-Rhine and Bond Hill (and the other inner-suburbs). You can only rely on so many of a particular demographic before you exhaust your options. There is a trend towards what I am seeing a need for - organizations like LISC and Price Hill Will renovate houses in neighborhoods (e.g. Price Hill) for the middle-class, and make the properties affordable to that particular demographic. It just needs to happen much more often to stave off the decline in some neighborhoods.

[ink]

                            2000      2010
Columbus city   711,470   787,033
Cleveland city   478,403   396,815
Cincinnati city   331,285   296,943
Toledo city   313,619   287,208
Akron city   217,074   199,110
Dayton city   166,179   141,527
Parma city   85,655   81,601
Canton city   80,806   73,007
Youngstown city   82,026   66,982
Lorain city   68,652   64,097
Hamilton city   60,690   62,477
Springfield city   65,358   60,608
Kettering city   57,502   56,163
Elyria city   55,953   54,533
Lakewood city   56,646   52,131
Cuyahoga Falls      49,374   49,652
Euclid city   52,717   48,920
Middletown city   51,605   48,694
Mansfield city   49,346   47,821
Newark city   46,279   47,573
Mentor city   50,278   47,159
Cleveland Heights  49,958   46,121
Warren city   46,832   41,577
Lima city    40,081   38,771

[quantumfootball]

Ink, where did you get the numbers from? I was trying to look on the website for a more complete list, but couldn't find even that.

[C-Dawg]

Dayton city   166,179   141,527

Wow, worse than I expected. I knew it dropped below 150k, but I didn't expect it to drop that low. Percentage-wise, that's a 14.8% drop, so almost as bad as Cleveland and markedly worse than previous decades.

Youngstown city   82,026   66,982

Not too bad. I was expecting Youngstown to be below 60k.

Lorain city   68,652   64,097

Pretty good. Go Lorain!

[Hts121]

I am much more interested in the metro numbers.  I suspect that the majority of the inner city loss in Cleveland really wasn't that much of a "loss".  I am glad to see that we are finally establishing what we didn't have in 2000 - residential areas for potential and sustainable growth in the inner city.  I would rather have one stable neighborhood that is modestly populated than 10 unstable nabes flush with density.

[ink]

Ink, where did you get the numbers from? I was trying to look on the website for a more complete list, but couldn't find even that.

cincinnati.com, cleveland.com, and dispatch.com all have the complete list.

[dmerkow]

So it turns out those census challenges were pieces of sh#t to be blunt. Not worth .pdf they were printed on. I'm curious at the population numbers under 18. I'd guess that the birth dearth is hitting Ohio cities really hard.

[sfbob]

Of course it's never easy to see population declines but not too unexpected and nothing to get crazy over, especially from all the negative ill informed comments that are sure to come. From an outsider perspective I have never seen Cleveland in a better position for changes that will affect population loss. Because a city has more people doesn't necessarily make it a better place at all. Here in California there are plenty of places with growth, like San Jose and other parts of the Central Valley, that are far from great areas to live. Cleveland is a tough city with amazing potential and can withstand this better than most places. Cleveland's time is coming. I'm optimistic for the Cleve and Investing in the city.

[sir2gees]

So frustrating...The foreclosure crisis destroyed so many east side neighborhoods. That was an awful decade for Cleveland.  How do we fix this problem? Obviously, job creation is severely needed; however, I'm starting to wonder if that will be enough. I just talked to my younger brother, who graduated from OSU a few years ago, about this exact topic. How do we convince young people to stay here or move here from other areas? My brother has all kinds of stories about friends turning down jobs in Ohio because they're waiting for a job in a "cool city." He knows a girl who has turned down two PR jobs (sports franchises) in Indy and Milwaukee because she's waiting for a PR job in Atlanta. She's still sitting on her parent's couch in Columbus two years after she graduated! She said she doesn't want to live in those cities because they're boring. How do we overcome that? I feel like things have changed. When I graduated in '03 things didn't seem as bad...people talked about "cool cities," but it seems like it's gotten worse. Is this behavior a symptom of society? Have we become so soft that we can't suck it up and live in a "non-cool" cities? It just seems like our priorities have shifted. I know our problems are a lot more complicated than that and this is just one of the issues facing our cities, but perception does seem to hold a lot weight nowadays.

[tcj1985]

Interesting to note:

* Lorain (pop. 64,097) is now very close to Youngstown (pop. 66,982)
* Findlay (pop. 41,202) now has a larger population than Lima (pop. 38,771)

I'm also happy that the towns in and around where I grew up didn't do so bad.
* Sandusky (pop. 25,793) only saw about a 7% drop since the 2000 census (the local newspapers thought it was going to be much worse)
* Norwalk (pop. 17,012) actually grew by about 5% since the 2000 census and is now larger than Fremont

[hubz1124]

Ouchhh was not expecting under 400....Mark my words, the Southwest is way overpopulated for its fresh water supply, Clevelands time is still to come

[ClevelandOhio]

Cleveland doesn't even necessarily need people from the outside right now. We need to get people from the suburbs to move back in first before trying to attract outsiders. So how can we bring people from northeast ohio back to Cleveland?

[sir2gees]

^We need immigrants...at this point I would take illegal immigrants. Also, we can't lose sight of the fact of the cyclical nature of some of this stuff. My family moved north after WWII and my grandmother swore nobody would ever move south again. She said she couldn't see any possible way the South would ever become viable again. With all the racial tension and an antiquated agrarian economy, she saw no hope for the South.  The feeling in Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Virginia and North Carolina in the 40's and 50's must be similar to what were feeling now.

[quantumfootball]

Ink, where did you get the numbers from? I was trying to look on the website for a more complete list, but couldn't find even that.

cincinnati.com, cleveland.com, and dispatch.com all have the complete list.

Thank you.

[Oldmanladyluck]

One surprise to me is that with the amount of sprawl which Cleveland experienced during the beginning of the 2000s, I expected Mentor to grow to maybe 60,000.  Instead the population declined... in Mentor of all places.  That statistic has me stumped. 

With the amount of foreclosures which occurred in Euclid, I'm surprised the population didn't fall much further than a couple thousand.  At the height of the foreclosure crisis, Euclid was just shy of reaching the amount of foreclosures experienced in Slavic Village (without the additional abandonment).  Of course there's been a lot of white flight out of Euclid, but I guess Euclid sucked up some of the losses experienced on the East Side since Euclid's numbers didn't move much.