|
MyTwoSense
|
Merchandise marts usually show one type of trade show at a time. for example the holiday Xmas gift or toy mart which shows at the "merchandise marts" in chicago, Dallas and Los Angeles. These merchandise marts host"permanent" tenants (showrooms) that cannot be housed at a traditional convention center. In addition, "marts" serve as an addition to the main convention center as they are usually located on or near that main convention center.
With Cleveland being the number one location for "medical" retreats, offsites and conventions I think this is smart to extend the reach of medical related events in the city.
|
|
|
|
blinker12
|
Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation.
|
|
|
|
zaceman
|
Cleveland, county consider Medical Mart' downtown
Sunday, December 18, 2005
Susan Vinella and Sarah Hollander
Plain Dealer Reporters
Cleveland and Cuyahoga County officials, with the support of Dr. Toby Cosgrove, president of the Cleveland Clinic, want to attract a year-round exhibition center for medical equipment and devices to downtown Cleveland.
...
|
|
|
|
Map Boy
|
I like this idea. It's this kind of thinking and development that could make the investment in a new CC much more worthwhile and lucrative. I hope something comes of it!
|
|
|
|
KJP
|
I agree. It makes the purpose of, and the public benefits from the convention center much clearer.
|
|
|
|
3231
|
I agree with MGD & KJP that is sounds like a very unique and good idea. But, I have a little bit of difficulty envisioning how this would fit into the current convention center plans. Would it demand additional space? According to the article, it would require a large amount of sq footage.
|
|
|
|
X
|
If they go with the Mall site and the Lakefront option, then the Medical Mart would fit nicely on the current site of the County Admin, the office building, and the parking garage that are on the west side of Mall B. Half-million square feet would make for a 4-ish story building, the right height (with high ceilings) to finish off the Group Plan. It could be connected to, but outside of the Convention Center.
|
|
|
|
KJP
|
X, I think the Medical Mart would be much taller than that. The nearby Marriott at Key Center is only 385,000 square feet, and it's 25 stories. Granted, the ceiling heights would likely be greater at the medical mart, but consider all the different types of activities that could be offered at a medical mart, not just a huge showroom. I would also expect a lot of smaller meeting rooms, modest display areas and conference rooms to provide flexibility and affordibility for smaller and new-start medical and tech supplier organizations. Plus, I would expect audio-visual support areas, back-office functions etc. etc.
|
|
|
|
MyTwoSense
|
can these threads be merged?? Also the medical mart will house PERMANENT COLLECTIONS/SHOWROOMS 
|
|
|
|
X
|
KJP, the site I am talking about is approximately 160,000 sq. ft. (I measured the site using Google Earth) So 500,000 sq ft/160,000 sq ft= 3.12. So it could be as few as 3 stories if they go slightly smaller than 500,000 sq ft. Or they could use slightly less of the site for the Medical Mart, or have an atrium or courtyard, and go for 4 stories.
I am also assuming all the ancilliary uses you mentioned are included in the 500,000 sq ft.
|
|
|
|
downtowndreamer
|
The best location is still next to Tower City for the Convention Center, I think. That's the urban core. Build from the center out. Density is the key...then, you have a nice piece of land for a bunch of developers to take a whack at proposing what to do with it. Just my take.
|
|
|
|
X
|
But then what do we do with an empty convention center, and empty county administration building, and an empty Public Auditorium? It seems to me that if we can replace the old convention center with a new one on the same site, it will make it easier to find uses for those other two spaces, because they can be complementary uses to the convention center. With the Tower City site, we will end up with a huge amount of empty facility in the middle of downtown that won't be easy to find new uses for.
Also, I think the Tower City Convention Center will make for a hideous western face for Downtown. Think about it- truck loading docks and ramping 150 feet in the air? It will overwhelm the "Riverfront Park" they are proposing as well, and require a whole lot of road reconfiguration, ramping, and possibly road widening right by the main highway entrance to downtown. I think it will be a traffic mess. Combined with the possible Northern Alignment for the Innerbelt reconstruction that section of downtown will be a concrete nightmare.
|
|
|
|
downtowndreamer
|
I can't disagree with your 2nd point...extremely valid.
The old site-housing, housing, and more housing!
|
|
|
|
X
|
How are you going to convert the Public Auditorium and the Convention Center to housing?
|
|
|
|
MyTwoSense
|
I can't disagree with your 2nd point...extremely valid.
The old site-housing, housing, and more housing!
How do you convert something that is a national landmark into housing??? The malls, convention center, PHall/MHall, the library, courthouse & Board of Ed are all landmarks. 
|
|
|
|
Map Boy
|
Saturday, February 25, 2006 CLEVELAND Convention center report onlineThe groups that were the hosts of a symposium about the future of convention centers last October in Cleveland have published a report on their findings. The Convention & Visitors Bureau of Greater Cleveland and the Convention Facilities Authority - the group charged with recommending a location and financing plan for a new downtown center - worked with The International Association for Exhibition Management to organize the event. Panel members discussed ways to design, build and use exhibit halls of the future. To read the report, go to: www.iaem.org/content/WhitePaperResearchSymposium20060222.pdf.
|
|
|
|
KJP
|
This was on my Cox-Cleveland home page today....
Convention Authority Loses Money
04-19-2006 8:52 AM
(Cleveland, OH) -- The group charged with finding a site and financing for a new convention center in Cleveland will have less money to work with. The Cuyahoga County Commissioners have slashed the Convention Facilities Authority budget to eight-thousand-dollars a month. The cuts follow the authority's suspension of operations earlier this year. The county commissioners will send the remaining 25-thousand-dollar monthly payouts to the Convention and Visitors Bureau of Greater Cleveland.
Copyright 2006 Metro Networks Communications Inc., A Westwood One Company
|
|
|
|
punch
|
Just wondering.....
If a casino was approved for Tower City, would FCE propose building the convention center on Scranton penninsula, and bridge the river to a convention center hotel and casino complex on the terminal tower side of the river.
Just one of the random thoughts that go through my head
|
|
|
|
w28th
|
Your explanation looks pretty accurate. I've seen layouts of the convention center plan at my place of employment and it willl be casino, convention center, parking, hotel, etc on the Terminal side. The aesthetics are attrocious with the center hulking over the river and a huge truck delivery ramp going to the 6th floor of the center on the river side. Sounds incredible/horrible/inefficient, but it is true.
I haven't seen renderings of the Scranton Penninsula developement however. I'm assuming Forest City will wait until teh last possible minute to build on that land. Remember what Forest City has said in the past, "we don't create demand, we react to it."
Thankfully Robert Stark does not see it that way. I really think FC will miss the boat on this city.
|
|
|
|
KJP
|
Remember what Forest City has said in the past, "we don't create demand, we react to it." Ah, the developer's rallying cry following World War II, when returning GIs created a suburban housing market and institutionalized urban sprawl for the next 60+ years. Thankfully Robert Stark does not see it that way. I really think FC will miss the boat on this city. I agree. I think they're already falling behind, and it's their own hometown. One of these days, they're going to try to step out from behind the other developers and say "Here we are with a nice big project...who's going to give us a big hug? Anyone? Anyone? Hello! We're frickin' Forest City over he'e!"
|
|
|
|
3231
|
Sure sounds like the mall site is not being considered.
|
|
|
|
zaceman
|
i bet this medical mart will be an extra selling point to pick forest city's proposal. granted if we got a 500,000 sq ft medical mart with this convention center i would not mind the FC site. i bet the whole thing would have to be redesigned as well.
|
|
|
|
KJP
|
Since the election campaigns of Jackson and Hagan were funded heavily by Forest City, guess where their convention center conversations will be steered. And, who is going to negotiate a tentative deal with Merchandise Mart Properties Inc. for the existing convention center? No one is in a position to do so. However, Forest City is able to do so for their own properties around Tower City.
If the casino gambling issue passes this fall, then they will be one step closer to a funding source for building the convention center. As noted in the Crain's article....
Both Mr. Dimora and Mr. Hagan say no decision will be made until the end of the year about how to pursue a new convention center. Once the dust has settled from the November election, they will have a better idea of how to move forward.
|
|
|
|
Map Boy
|
I've gotta admit that this is the first time that I've actually considered the Forest City site to be an option. Maybe it's the amount of time that has passed since the discussion was last heated up or maybe it's the possibility of really beefing up this part of Downtown and perhaps making the jump to Scranton Peninsula. But seriously, what happened to the Mall discussion? Last I remember, the Medical Mart fit into that plan as well...
“We’re going to make a decision after the election and before the first of the year,”
I'm marking your words, Mr. Hagan!
|
|
|
|
X
|
How are they going to fit an additional 500,000 sq ft building onto that tiny wedge of land? It won't exactly be a skyscraper. If anything, the Medical Mart makes the Mall site make even more sense. The convention center could go out over the tracks, with the hotel along East 9th above the tracks, the Medical Mart could stand where the county offices currently stand. If the CC/Medical Mart goes at TC, what are they going to do with the 1/2 of the Mall that they will be leaving vacant?
I really, really, am not liking the direction this town is starting to go with its major public investments.
|
|
|
|
KJP
|
I agree 100 percent!
If the convention center and medical mart are built at the Tower City site, we will have:
> a vacant, former convention center
> a very underutilized Public Hall
> a continued disconnect between the lakefront and downtown
> a very underutilized Cleveland Browns Stadium
Plus:
> a Cuyahoga County Administration building that's soon to become vacant
> and a Public Square in need of redesign
Anyone in the city's leadership see how all these line up -- including leading right toward Tower City Center? ? ?
This is where Corporate Cleveland seems to have sacrificed reason, sound urban planning and community benefit for the gain of a few. I realize that's how this country is going, but is that how this city has to go? Sad thing is, is Forest City really hurt by expanding the existing convention center, linked to Tower City via attractive all-weather pedestrian linkages?
Add vision to the things sacrificed in this process.
|
|
|
|
audidave
|
Luckily FC and their architects can't add more land to Scranton Peninsula or this might be more doable. For the Merch Mart to be successful it will need to be of better access to Euclid Ave and University Circle. Hiding behind TC and below downtown Cleveland in the industrial guts isn't exactly accessible nor synergistic, to use an old 90s word. If FC can get the pols to do their bidding for them it will be so overtly obvious that they are bought. Probably why Hagan wants to know which way the wind is blowing come November.
|
|
|
|
Map Boy
|
Every meeting I went to and every academic discussion I've had over the past year on this topic have all either flat out stated or blatantly implied that the FC site is the lesser, if not a poor, site. The only way I could see this fitting in back there is if it involved development across the river. How that could happen, I don't know. But I agree that the current location and possible available land along the Mall is more sensible and suitable for this project.
Either one can be used to "jump" a gap...whether it be the railroad tracks to the lakefront or the river to Scranton... but which one is more likely to happen? Which has more of the public benefit in mind? Which one creates the convention center we want and makes our Downtown more complete at the same time? I have no doubt in my mind at this point that it's the Mall site. The master plans from the 90s all had that as the plan...so there was will behind it back then. But what now? Jackson has never come out one way or another. Has the political support shifted?
|
|
|
|
punch
|
Campbell used the spector of the convention center going to Tower City in the last days of the campaign, saying that Jackson had more or less promised it to the Ratners.
Lots of things are said in campaigns, though.
So the Medical Mart is a year round display area for medical merchandise, sort of like the furniture department of a department store. Too bad Forest City does not have an empty department store sitting on its property that could be easily linked to a new convention center, say at the the southeast corner.....
|
|
|
|
musky
|
Every meeting I went to and every academic discussion I've had over the past year on this topic have all either flat out stated or blatantly implied that the FC site is the lesser, if not a poor, site. The only way I could see this fitting in back there is if it involved development across the river. How that could happen, I don't know.
SP is one of 5 sites being considered right now for a major new year-round cultural attraction. As is the Norfolk-Southern site by the innerbelt and the properties around the soon to be demoed Independent Towel Company. (stay tuned) If this proposal pans out, then having the convention/mart at FC may be beneficial for everyone in the immediate area. This will not bode well for the lakefront in terms of touristy things, but will still keep the area more residentially friendly. Of course, it still leaves to question what will become of the old CC.
|
|
|
|
