Cleveland: Convention Center / Medical Mart

[punch]

^Well, from my corner of the world, manufacturing, the FABTEC/AWS show is going on in Atlanta right now, and it is the largest show in terms of exhibitors and attendees in its history.

Right now I am bartending about a mile from McCormick in Chicago.  Everyone there says the annual shows are much bigger this year than in years past.

Conventions are back....from my perspective

[MyTwoSense]

^Well, from my corner of the world, manufacturing, the FABTEC/AWS show is going on in Atlanta right now, and it is the largest show in terms of exhibitors and attendees in its history.

Right now I am bartending about a mile from McCormick in Chicago.  Everyone there says the annual shows are much bigger this year than in years past.

Conventions are back....from my perspective

I agree.  I've gone to many conventions and seminars.  I've gone to quite a few in downtown cleveland, hosted in hotels who would much rather have a central convention center.

I have a friend at the Ritz who can't wait for the IX to go down and get more overnight corporate folks...to them...the IX center can't go away fast enough.

[JDD941]

Maybe the old convention center could be turned into the aquarium that I keep reading about on UO???   Just a thought

[Oldmanladyluck]

Well, straight from the mayor's mouth...

I skipped one of my classes at CSU because I heard that the mayor would be in Dr. Krumholz (spelling might be wrong) class, so I walked in and sat down before the professor came, hoping he wouldn't throw me out of his class (he ended up sitting down right next to me, but didn't say anything).  The mayor came in, and the first thing he said was that he was not for regional government, but knew the importance of a regional economy.  He stressed that the reason why he wasn't for a regional government was because he knew that just because someone states "if we do this, wonderful things will happen", does not mean that those wonderful things will happen.  But back to the topic...

He was asked about the convention center... and he stated that Issue 3 has a good chance of passing, and if it did pass, "I think there would be no question that the convention center would go at Tower City".  He mentioned that Cincy and C-bus had the same chance that Cleveland had for casinos to be located in their downtowns, but didn't take it.  He said that he endorsed Issue 3 because the money generated from the casinos for the city would go towards an economic developement fund, and not towards the city's budget (he mentioned that Michigan cut 110 million from Detroit's budget when they got the casinos, so Detroit has not been able to benefit from them).  That way if the casinos wanted to leave, they would not affect the city's budget.  He also stated that with the two casinos and the convention center going downtown, in total the development would be over 1 BILLION dollars (and along w/ Stark's $1 billion plan, there's some big money going into downtown). 

[MyTwoSense]

He was asked about the convention center... and he stated that Issue 3 has a good chance of passing, and if it did pass, "I think there would be no question that the convention center would go at Tower City".  He mentioned that Cincy and C-bus had the same chance that Cleveland had for casinos to be located in their downtowns, but didn't take it.  He said that he endorsed Issue 3 because the money generated from the casinos for the city would go towards an economic developement fund, and not towards the city's budget (he mentioned that Michigan cut 110 million from Detroit's budget when they got the casinos, so Detroit has not been able to benefit from them).  That way if the casinos wanted to leave, they would not affect the city's budget.  He also stated that with the two casinos and the convention center going downtown, in total the development would be over 1 BILLION dollars (and along w/ Stark's $1 billion plan, there's some big money going into downtown). 

I PRAY YOU HAD MOMENTARY ISSUE WITH YOUR HEARING.  IF NOT......AHHHHH f$&k!  THAT MAKES NO DAMN SENSE!

well atleat the casino money goes into a fund where it will benefit the city.

[punch]

Does Issue 3 have a good chance of passing?

[jamiec]

Where is a convention center going to go if they are going to have casinos? Will they get rid of the mall and turn Tower City into slots? That wouldn't make sense because of the transit station.

Half of me thinks gambling is asinine and another half of me thinks "What if....!"

Only time will tell how I vote. I may be seduced.

[MyTwoSense]

Where is a convention center going to go if they are going to have casinos? Will they get rid of the mall and turn Tower City into slots? That wouldn't make sense because of the transit station.

Half of me thinks gambling is asinine and another half of me thinks "What if....!"

Only time will tell how I vote. I may be seduced.

the convention center and casino(s) are two different projects all together.  It is not a casino/convention center combo.

[jamiec]

Yeah, what I mean is, if casinos get approved, where will it go downtown? And where will the convention center go? It seems like it would all be near the Tower City area, right? Or what?

[MyTwoSense]

Yeah, what I mean is, if casinos get approved, where will it go downtown? And where will the convention center go? It seems like it would all be near the Tower City area, right? Or what?

yes sweetie.  IIRC, the Convention Center would be attached to Tower City and the Casino(s) would go in the Flats.

[Oldmanladyluck]

MyTwoSense-

Yep, he did say that.  He pointed at the professor while he said it and the professor agreed with him.  It seemed like one of the mayor's main goals for the city is jobs for the residents.  He said that with the two casinos downtown and the convention center, many jobs would be created (some temporary, like the construction jobs with the projects).  From his viewpoint, it seemed that getting jobs that could go to the residents in the city is his goal. 

I asked him if he had any other plans to help foster the regional economy (as with the no-poaching agreement with the suburbs, tax sharing, etc.), and he brought up the airport, which is in a different thread.

[KJP]

the convention center and casino(s) are two different projects all together.  It is not a casino/convention center combo.

While that is true, I think it's pretty fair to say that if a casino or two is built in Cleveland, the revenues that would go to the city and county would probably help finance the new convention center.

That being said, I still haven't made up my mind on Issue 3. I don't like how the issue is being marketed as some college improvement fund with little or no mention of gambling. I say if you can't market something on its own merits, then why should I support it?

[Scav]

i had an internship this summer with ka architecture (forest city's main architecture firm) and i have confirmed evidence that..

a. if issue 3 passes the convention center WILL be built behind tower city on the riverfront.
b. this convention center will have a hotel tower next to the courthouse, and one full level of slots.
c. i did not get any confirmation of a development of scranton peninsula.. so that could be yes or no... but it did seem leaning towards a yes.

  yay me!

[MyTwoSense]

i had an internship this summer with ka architecture (forest city's main architecture firm) and i have confirmed evidence that..

a. if issue 3 passes the convention center WILL be built behind tower city on the riverfront.
b. this convention center will have a hotel tower next to the courthouse, and one full level of slots.
c. i did not get any confirmation of a development of scranton peninsula.. so that could be yes or no... but it did seem leaning towards a yes.

  yay me!

Ya for you, but this sucks for the city.

More sh!t sucked into towercity and OFF the city streets.

Now FC better bend over backwards, pull their heads out of their asses, hire a fashion director and marketing guru and make TowerCity one hell of a shoppers paradise!

[Mov2Ohio]

If starks plans for a "Soho" like district North of Tower city pan out, then hopefully we'll have a synergy between the mall the WHD and Lower Euclid/E.4th, so there will be activity on the streets with people moving from venue to venue, store to restaurant and not all the activity happening under the Terminal Tower.

[3231]

i had an internship this summer with ka architecture (forest city's main architecture firm) and i have confirmed evidence that..

a. if issue 3 passes the convention center WILL be built behind tower city on the riverfront.
b. this convention center will have a hotel tower next to the courthouse, and one full level of slots.
c. i did not get any confirmation of a development of scranton peninsula.. so that could be yes or no... but it did seem leaning towards a yes.

  yay me!

We had heard as much, but we never really heard where the medical mart would go. So, where's the medical mart going to go?

[blinker12]

I really don't see Issue 3 passing.

[Map Boy]

It's the only issue on the ballot that I don't really have a good sense about...in regard to numbers for and against.  Not that I'm making any predictions elsewhere!

Wim, you raise an important question...

[gotribe]

If issue 3 fails, I'm a little concerned about the future of Tower City's exsistance. 

[MyTwoSense]

If issue 3 fails, I'm a little concerned about the future of Tower City's exsistance. 

Explain please??  I think Tower City is doing "ok".  Its not doing GREAT, but its doing just enough to get by.  Another ploy by the Rats to get the convention center!

[3231]

If issue 3 fails, I'm a little concerned about the future of Tower City's exsistance. 

Explain please??  I think Tower City is doing "ok".  Its not doing GREAT, but its doing just enough to get by.  Another ploy by the Rats to get the convention center!

Unless your source is more reliable, I've heard that its losing a million per month.

[MyTwoSense]

If issue 3 fails, I'm a little concerned about the future of Tower City's exsistance. 

Explain please??  I think Tower City is doing "ok".  Its not doing GREAT, but its doing just enough to get by.  Another ploy by the Rats to get the convention center!

Unless your source is more reliable, I've heard that its losing a million per month.

Really?  Thats news to me.  My comments was not based on any financial calculation, just a guestamation.

However, FCE could be saying that....too look for help in getting the Convention Center.   You can spin numbers in a variety of way to get your point across.

[w28th]

I'm also concerned about TC, and I'm not sure I agree Tower City is even doing "OK."  There's a Dollar Store, Wig Shop, air brush shirt store and plenty of empty storefronts on the lower level.  Unfortunately the reality of it is that it's retailers are maybe a step above Randall Park Mall.
We're dependent on Stark and grass roots types getting us some retail options.
Forest City seems to accept taking TC as a loss.  If the convention center thing falls through, I would also be worried about FC's presence in Cleveland as a whole, not that they've done much for us besides the jobs they have in the Terminal Tower (nothing to look past I guess).

[gotribe]

I just think that FC has been waiting for this issue to go on the ballot in order to figure out what they are going to do with their failing mall.  They are a huge company.  They do not have to hold onto a mall that is somewhat in shambles.  Also, we have seen they don't have much loyalty locally.  I really can't think of another reason they still hold onto the mall at this point. 

[Mov2Ohio]

Brooks Brothers is just "a step from whats available at Randall Mall? That's news to me. That mall still has plenty of legitimate stores it hasn't been reduced to stores that have plastic banners as their signage.

[clvlndr]

^Agreed.  'a step above Randall Mall' is hyperbole on steroids.  In addition to Brooks Bros, TC Papyrus, Ann Taylor, Charlotte Russe, Nine West and Johnston & Murphy (cheap shoes?  I think not), among other high end and semi-high end stores -- yes, there's Its A Dollar, Fye and Payless Shoe Source (which, btw, is also prominently located on Chicago's tony Mag Mile, in case you've never noticed) ... Is Tower City all it could be?  No.  Could it be run better?  Yes... but I think people here act like the place is an ugly flea market and it's anything but... I hadn't heard the $1M/mo in the red... That's bad... But let's hope it can be cured, not killed just to kill the Ratners... what does that solve?

I for one hope the Medical Merchandise mart and, if it is to be (I'm not thrilled) a casino, if it passes, gets built on the Tower City site... The Rats don't deserve it, but Cleveland does.  It is the 1st class retail public space in the City, love it or hate (most here seem to hate it)...

I also, however, would hate to see the beautiful Public Hall buildings go to waste.  I can't believe a Hotel can't be built somewhere adjacent to that site utilizing the Hall and, perhaps, part of the underground convention space, at least part of it, as hotel convention space ... even if Tower City gets the main convention center.  Pie in the sky?  Maybe.  But you do have the lake.  You do have (I sure hope) a new Ohio Hub/Amtrak/Commuter rail North Coast station; you do have the Ave District going up next door; you do have the (hopefully connected) Rock Hall and GLSC; and hopefully some kind of housing build adjacent to that mainly-empty concrete bowl called Browns Stadium, that would, perhaps, stretch down and connect with Wolstein's development someday.

[zaceman]

Demand for Cleveland-size convention centers is up
Saturday, November 04, 2006
Sarah Hollander
Plain Dealer Reporter
Some promising convention-industry news could help reinvigorate the stalled debate over whether to build a new convention center in downtown Cleveland.

North American convention and trade show business continues to rebound, according to results from an annual survey by PricewaterhouseCoopers, a consulting firm.

The report shows a 6 percent increase in demand for medium-size centers, such as Cleveland's. The company measured demand by both the number of days and space used.

More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com

[unbriacone]

Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing if Tower City went up for sale. Forest City gave up on it when they started exclusively gunning for public money. They are the ones that made the mistake of turning it into an indoor, suburban-style mall. You can't "outsuburb" the suburbs. Granted, it's a nice mall; it's still just a mall.  I know Forest City is headquarted in TC and they'd probably up and leave Cleveland if they sold the complex, but worse things have happened to the city.  Maybe new owners and fresh ideas are what is needed to restore fiscal stability to the complex. 
 Issue 3, as much as i would like it to, probably is not gonna pass.  Even still, to appease Forest City, the city and county are gonna try and put the convention center on the river.  I don't see Cuyahoga County willing to tax itself to build one, either.  Maybe the medical mart will make it a little easier to swallow, but the reality is people are just plain tapped out; especially in a city like mine.(Parma)

[8ShadesofGray]

The public polling I've seen suggests that Issue 3 is down by double digits. While I have no particular affinity for Forest City, and while a change in management might lead to some substantive improvements, I would have to think the instability during a change in ownership would cause some volatility in the downtown office market, just at a time when occupancy is coming up to a reasonable level. Change certainly might not be bad, but unless any transition in ownership is seamless, this could have some real spillover on other downtown projects.

I've wondered this for a while now ... does anyone think the improvements to the tower might be prep work for putting the complex on the market (pending elections results/convention center outcome)?

[8ShadesofGray]

Maybe the medical mart will make it a little easier to swallow, but the reality is people are just plain tapped out; especially in a city like mine.(Parma)

The conversations I've heard to date suggest that the convention center/medical mart might not be put in front of voters at all. There has been a lot of discussion of renewing the county-level sales tax. It's my understanding that the Commissioners have the ability to raise sales tax by up to 0.5% without voter approval. The only voter recourse would be to get enough petitions to put an anti-tax measure on the ballot and for that measure to pass, and that could only be accomplished in the election following the commissioners' decision. Judging from county officials' aversion to controversy, I imagine they would only go through with the tax hike if they landed the Medical Mart, or maybe if they could tie in additional economic development opportunities.