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WoollyBear
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I really like the North expansion plan. I do have one question though. How will this "mall D" be built? From the overhead view provided by Paul it looks like mall C ends at the bluff.
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oallostavros
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I agree...
The north expansion looks really good in the rendering.
And a glass entrance pyramid larger than the Rock Hall's ---both iconic and complementary. Not sure where they'd put it though without blocking the view of the lake....
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KJP
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Mall D could be built in a manner similar to the "Court of the Presidents" for the Great Lakes Exposition of 1936-37. The Court was built across the tracks and some lower-level land where the Shoreway would soon go. Below are a couple of the images of the Court of the Presidents. While the Court was built as an open-air promenade, if you can imagine this open-air deck being about 20 feet or so higher, about 4-6 times as wide, and an enclosed structure of equal width beneath it, that's probably something like what the convention center task force has in mind...maybe?   KJP
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SSSCincy
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Cleveland is a neat city. I like Lake cities. When I come, where should I stay? Wyndham or Ritz?
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KJP
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If you want easy access to the lake, then the Holiday Inn Lakeside is your best bet. The Ritz Carlton and Renaissance Hotel (a Marriott brand) have decent access, since they are upstairs from the Waterfront Line's Tower City station (take the train four stops to the North Coast station). Other hotels within an easy walk of the lakefront are the Sheraton City Center, Hampton Inn or Marriott at Key Tower. Actually, any downtown hotel is within a 20-minute walk of North Coast Harbor.
KJP
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MyTwoSense
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If you want easy access to the lake, then the Holiday Inn Lakeside is your best bet. The Ritz Carlton and Renaissance Hotel (a Marriott brand) have decent access, since they are upstairs from the Waterfront Line's Tower City station (take the train four stops to the North Coast station). Other hotels within an easy walk of the lakefront are the Sheraton City Center, Hampton Inn or Marriott at Key Tower. Actually, any downtown hotel is within a 20-minute walk of North Coast Harbor.
KJP
The Sheraton has been rebranded the Crowne Plaza. This property and the Holiday Inn Lakeside are the the closest hotels to North Coast Harbor.
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KJP
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My2sense,
Thanks for catching that.
KJP
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Icecream
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Hi- I am new here, but I thought I would add my two cents
Seems like their is some bad information on this board. First off there is a picture showing the Scranton Peninsula that shows some property mismarked as Scaravelli's property. The property that is marked as belonging to Scaravelli really belongs to W & M Properties which is not Scaravelli, but is conected to the Wolstein family. Scaravelli's own the property that is the marina at the base of the peninsula under the name of VLAS LLC. Both of those properties are delinquent in taxes. If you look at the court records, you will see that there is a note on the VLAS LLC property that went into default for non-payment. That note was bought up by a company backed by John Ferchill.
It is all public record
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MyTwoSense
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My2sense,
Thanks for catching that.
KJP
thats ok. You post so many great things you entitled to miss one 
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Map Boy
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I may not speak for everyone here at UrbanOhio, but I think we're all excited to see what everyone who joins the board has to say and share as it relates to their interests and expertise...
That being said, it looks like Icecream's expertise is probably in the technical/legal property realm, so I'd be interested to hear some news or input from him/her that doesn't sound like an accusation...
by the way, I believe that earlier post that aimed to display the scaravelli property included a disclaimer and a parenthetical "approximate" that we all heeded pretty sincerely.
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the pope
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i haven't been to this thread in a while, but the columnless convo center looks pretty suite. Does anyone know of a place where that's been done before?
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MayDay
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"That being said, it looks like Icecream's expertise is probably in the technical/legal property realm, so I'd be interested to hear some news or input from him/her that doesn't sound like an accusation... by the way, I believe that earlier post that aimed to display the scaravelli property included a disclaimer and a parenthetical "approximate" that we all heeded pretty sincerely."Agreed - welcome to the forum Icecream.  When I created the image with the inaccurately marked Scaravelli property, it was based on what I've read in the local media (which admittedly isn't the best starting place). I try to keep up with the details but I don't always have time to dig through public records - but if you do have that time/expertise, by all means feel free to post that information.
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Icecream
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Sorry if it sounded like an attack. Not intended that way at all. Tone kind of gets lost when I am writing. I think this board is fun to read and the great amount of work that people have put into it makes it far better than the news sources I am used to in Cleveland.
Once again, sorry if I came across poorly
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Map Boy
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hey, no sweat! You just sound like you've got some good stuff to share, so we're trying to get you loosened up!
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Map Boy
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they've got surveys on there! go voice your concerns!
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KJP
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"Pay for linking the center to two nearby hotels. The authority voted not to subsidize construction of a headquarters hotel, although it will try to find space for one in its plans."
Yay!
KJP
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oallostavros
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I second that. "Pay for linking the center to two nearby hotels. The authority voted not to subsidize construction of a headquarters hotel, although it will try to find space for one in its plans."
Yay!
KJP
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Map Boy
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I'm assuming they're already charging these two linked hotels some sort of fee...I don't understand why the CC would pay for the entireity of it if it will mean significant benefits for these two hotels and not the remainder of Downtown hotels. Sounds like a pretty interesting thing for them to ask us to pay for!
As for the restaurant tax, is there one now or is this completely new? What are the chances that county residents would approve this?
I'm glad they're not talking about building a new hotel right now, or about closing the I-X center, but this is still a very questionable investment for the City/County...
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LocutusOfBoard
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300,000 square feet is very small.
The convention center here in Columbus is 1.2 million square feet.
Cleveland should aim higher.
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MayDay
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Columbus is actually at 1.7 million square feet. Keep in mind, that's not maximum contiguous exhibit floor space (which is substantially smaller). The 300K figure for Cleveland would be the contiguous exhibit floor space for the main area, with ballrooms and meeting rooms supplementing that number.
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audidave
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There is now talk of perhaps of maintaining 2 convention centers: 1 downtown for smaller affairs and keeping the IX center for the larger shows. The main expo area at the IX center is 800,000 and it has a lot of additional space underneath. Lots of politics involved between Cleveland trying to use airport expansion to level the IX center and its one suburb that has the IX Center property. That will be interesting to see if everyone can get along and everyone can stomach a renovated $450mil Convention Center downtown that wouldn't put the other Convention center out of biz.
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MyTwoSense
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the IX center issue has nothing to do with city vs. suburb, since the IX center is in Cleveland or using airport expansion as a reason to close the IX center
How i digest the situation, it seems we know that what we're proposing downtown isn't large enough for the REALLY big shows. so the management of the IX is now saying they aren't going anywhere.
I still believe we should build a center downtown with atleast 700k sq. feet of space. the meeting rooms will get used. and the new hotels will be much appreciated.
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audidave
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I guess I'm not to current on the situation. I just did a google search to see when the IX Center was part of BrookPark property. I found this: http://www.wcpn.org/spotlight/news/2001/0808brookpark-vote.htmlI missed or forgot about the land swap 4yrs ago with Cleveland and Brookpark. I still believe that airport expansion was the main reason they wanted the land. Whether thats needed or not is another question. I like the ideas I've seen of renovating the current center and expanding north. I don't think Cleveland needs to compete with all the other brand new Convention centers around the US in trying to have the biggest emptiest building in a downtown location. I like the 2 convention center idea.
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KJP
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Actually, the city of Cleveland did want the IX Center land for airport expansion. Hopkins' long-range plan is to relocate all the terminals into one giant terminal, placed approximately where the IX Center sets. Where the old terminals stand, a third runway would be built, roughly parallel to SR237. The proposed layout is what most mid- to large-sized airports are seeking these days -- a mid-field terminal. Cities in the region which already have this airport layout are Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and now Detroit. Cleveland wants one, too.
I have a diagram of the basic proposal, which I modified to include a high-speed rail line (what a shock!). But Hopkins' planners acknowledge the new terminal won't be built for 10-20 years. And, it will probably cost a billion dollars or more to build it.
KJP
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3231
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Could you post your diagram?
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Map Boy
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Pittsburgh, PA: http://www.gbapgh.org/casestudies_ConventionCenter.aspCompleted in 2003 Total Building Square Footage: 1.5 Million square feet • 313¸400 sq.ft. of Exhibit Space (236¸900 sq/ft is column free) • 76¸500 sq.ft. of Secondary Exhibit Space • 31¸610 sq.ft. Spirit of Pittsburgh Ballroom and Regional Showcase Cost: $385 million dollars LEED GOLD CERTIFIED!!! and just 2.5 hours from Cleveland in a car...
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MyTwoSense
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Actually, the city of Cleveland did want the IX Center land for airport expansion. Hopkins' long-range plan is to relocate all the terminals into one giant terminal, placed approximately where the IX Center sets. Where the old terminals stand, a third runway would be built, roughly parallel to SR237. The proposed layout is what most mid- to large-sized airports are seeking these days -- a mid-field terminal. Cities in the region which already have this airport layout are Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and now Detroit. Cleveland wants one, too.
I have a diagram of the basic proposal, which I modified to include a high-speed rail line (what a shock!). But Hopkins' planners acknowledge the new terminal won't be built for 10-20 years. And, it will probably cost a billion dollars or more to build it.
KJP
I wouldn't call cinci a "mid feild terminal" they have various terminals. Pitts, detroit and atlanta are good examples.
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