Converting auto factories to rail car plants?

[KJP]

With increased ridership and federal funding for Amtrak, commuter rail and rail transit, more rail cars are going to need to be built to expand the fleet. Many existing rail cars will need to be rebuilt to stay in active fleets.

That has led to the question in some quarters in recent days on the need for converting recently closed auto manufacturing plants to building or rebuilding passenger rail cars for the high-speed intercity, conventional intercity, commuter and transit sectors.

The question is, are Ohioans aware of this opportunity? If not, why not? And what auto plants are still in good condition but either completely or partially available for reactivation as railroad equipment manufacturing?

Let's compile a list of these plants and discuss their merits. And maybe someone will see this thread and share it others who can lobby for funding to put these plants back into productive use -- for the booming railroad industry!

[327]

We may need to partner with someone like Bombardier, but I completely agree that the work should be done here.  We have the capacity and the skilled labor to do it.  This region has the best possible setup to start cranking out all things rail.  The match is so perfect, as is the timing. 

I don't know of any completely unused ex-auto plants.  The former White plant on E140 comes to mind.  It's being converted to piecemeal industrial uses, but I'm sure they'd love for a giant tenant to move in.  There are plenty of vacant industrial properties sitting around.  As for what specific machines would be needed for railcar construction, I have no idea.  But we can get them.  They're probably already in NE Ohio.       

[Robert Pence]

Is Indiana eligible for a piece of this discussion, and does it have to be automobile plants?

I remember that it came up recently in one of our conversations that Amtrak intends to either scale back or shut down its facility at Beech Grove (Suburban Indianapolis). Back in the late 1980s - early '90s they invested a ton of money in part of the old Big 4 shops to create a state-of-the-art facility capable of heavy repair, including everything from wreck repair to scheduled rehabs on cars and locomotives. I can't remember all the details, but the Beech Grove shops played a significant part in building the prototype Viewliner cars.

European and Asian railroads used to send technicians and observers to Beech Grove to see how a first-class maintenance facility should be run.

There's a facility that doesn't need to be converted, and is underutilized but to a great extent fully equipped to do the work. If Amtrak doesn't want it, it seems to me that someone like M-K (Morrison-Knudsen) or Bombardier ought to be interested in buying or leasing it.

[dmerkow]

I know Philly is doing the building for most of their new regional rail cars - they are Korean/Japanese design, but they are being assembled somewhere in Greater Philly. This might be a good way to start.

[UrbanSurfin]

Maybe Boeing ought to get back into railcars.

[Robert Pence]

Maybe Boeing ought to get back into railcars.

Yeah. Maybe they could build on the reputation they established with those fabulous Muni Metro cars.

[BuckeyeB]

As for what specific machines would be needed for railcar construction, I have no idea.  But we can get them.  They're probably already in NE Ohio.       

My understanding is that Amtrak owns the tooling for the double deck long distance Superliners used out west, as well as the single-level Viewliner sleepers currently used on the Lake Shore Limited and other eastern trains.

Keep in mind also that we could remanufacture hundreds of former commuter cars into intercity equipment. Philadelphia's SEPTA system and New jersey transit are in the process of retiring hundreds of old Silverliner and Jersey Arrow electric MU cars. There are also 200 retired Long Island RR commuter cars in the hands of an equipment dealer available at about $25,000 each.

Thus we could have a scenario where we quickly gear up to remanufacture hundreds of old cars while simultaneously tooling up to build new cars in another part of the same facility.

For a billion dollars, we could remanufacture 500 old cars at about $300 million and build 300 new cars with the remaining $700 million (educated guess).



 

[carolecohen]

Oh if only the bail out money wasn't trying to help out failed companies but start ups like this instead. It's a brilliant idea.

[carolecohen]

This article from the Dayton Daily News mentions a proposal for legislation to allow incentives for building reuse in cases like you mention above.  Here is the article:

Leaders: Time to focus on GM plant reuse
> Do you think a new use will be found for the GM Moraine plant?
> Coverage of the plant's closing
By Thomas Gnau

Staff Writer

Tuesday, October 07, 2008

MORAINE — General Motors Corp.'s announcement last week that it will close its Moraine assembly plant Dec. 23 was painful, local leaders agree.

But by no means was it a surprise, they add. GM indicated in June that it will close the plant by 2010. And as recently as late August, the automaker had rejected an Ohio government offer of $56 million in tax credits to keep the plant open.

"It's the end of an era in Dayton in terms of automobile manufacturing," said Deborah Feldman, Montgomery County administrator.

"We have to be realistic about this," said Montgomery County Commissioner Dan Foley. "We can't sugarcoat it."

While there are no silver linings, Feldman and Foley say the local Regional Task Force formed this summer to respond to the situation can now focus on preparing workers, as well as finding new uses for the plant. Both say workers should visit the Career Transition Center at 4257 Dryden Road as soon as possible. And both say redevelopment efforts for the plant should take on new urgency.

Moraine City Manager Dave Hicks said Monday he won't relent in fighting to keep the plant open, although he added that the odds are "certainly stacked against us now."

"The priorities are probably weighted to the reuse" of the GM plant, Hicks acknowledged.

For ideas along those lines, Hicks said he and Michael Davis, Moraine development director, have visited a former GM stamping plant in Comstock, Mich., which was redeveloped into smaller units — for manufacturing and offices.

Also, Hicks said he has spoken with Ohio House Speaker Jon Husted about legislation to spur reuse of the plant site.

The idea is to craft legislation that would provide incentives to buy existing buildings and use those for new purposes. Today in Ohio, there are incentives for building new structures, but there are no comparable incentives for existing buildings, Hicks said.

"It levels the playing field," Hicks said of the legislation he has in mind.

While the plant enjoyed full employment, Moraine saw about $3 million in annual income tax revenue from the facility, Hicks said. The plant lost a third shift in 2006 and a second shift last month. When it closes its doors, about 1,100 workers will lose jobs.

John Harlow, shop chairman for the union representing GM-Moraine workers, said in an e-mail to members Friday, Oct. 3, that the union is nearing a new contract with GM.

"We will be bringing the agreement forward so you may see what you are entitled to and the options that will also be afforded to you," Harlow wrote.


Contact this reporter at (937) 225-2390 or tgnau@DaytonDailyNews.com.



> Do you think a new use will be found for the GM Moraine plant?

[NorthAndre]

It's more realistic to build a new plant for heavy manufacturing of a different type of product than reuse an existing facility except if maybe you were only doing assembly.  Most practical reuses of closed auto plants are light industry since they don't require a major retrofit of existing space. 

Speaking trains, maybe GM shouldn't have sold EMD

[KJP]

Assembly is pretty much what we're talking about since components are made all over the world. And even if newly manufactured rail cars can't be built in the existing auto plants, they can certainly be built in new plants built on the site of the old auto plants.

Also, when it comes to rebuilding/refurbishing existing rail cars, strip out the interiors of some of these auto plants and you can do the necessary work in them.

And, Rob, we want these rail cars built/rebuilt in Ohio!

[Neville]

The old Packard plant(s) in Warren/Champion, Ohio... Currently Delphi is only using a fraction of the plants that are located on their property and are planning to close another. Significant rehab would most likely be needed. That's the only plants I can think of though...

[KJP]

The Lorain Ford plant has been in my mind, and is still mostly unused since an investor bought the huge complex.

[327]

I think the old Copperweld complex in Warren is underutilized too.  Parts of it might be too far gone at this point, but other parts are still kicking.

One issue with the really old factory buildings is that their docks don't work well with modern trucks.  The bays aren't deep enough and I think there's a height issue too.  We aren't in a position yet to get everything in and out by rail, which is what those buildings were originally designed for.

[dmerkow]

Perhaps some of the factories in north-central Ohio might be better suited. I'm thinking of the factories in the small towns north of Columbus that have been crushed this decade. A factory in the cities would be great, but fixing the small town one's would be far easier.

[noozer]

Here's an editorial from the Dayton Daily News from back in July that addresses this thread.

EDITORIAL
Our view: Trains could be route to new jobs, too
By Dayton Daily News
Friday, July 11, 2008

Maybe the old adage about what's good for General Motors being good for the country should get a tweaking: what's good for the former GM worker is good for the country.

On first reading, two recent stories in this newspaper might suggest a struggle that is beyond winning. First, a report Friday, July 4, by business reporter Tim Tresslar told of the millions upon literal millions of square feet of plant space either already empty or due to turn fallow when, as announced, DHL and GM cease area operations.

Then, on Sunday, July 6, Washington correspondent Jessica Wehrman reported that during a nearly five-year period ending in September 2007, more than 42,000 Ohio workers got help from the federal Trade Adjustment Assistance program for factory workers whose loss of a job might be tied to trade.
What now? Some people are saying that one reasonable response to these problems — especially in the face of record gas prices — is to think about the construction of trains.

"What did these guys do for a living?" says Stu Nicholson, spokesman for the Ohio Rail Development Commission. "They fabricated metal. They ran wiring. They installed components. Then they put it on wheels. What does a passenger rail car manufacturer do? The very same thing, just a different set of wheels."
Of course, for the transition to happen, there must be, well, passenger rail lines.

To carry passengers, existing lines would need many upgrades and some new construction.

Here, too, Nicholson sees a nearly seamless transition: for highway workers who would find themselves on pretty familiar ground, albeit building railroad beds.

A passenger rail plan that has languished on the drawing board through the era of cheap oil should receive high priority now. Last February, Gov. Ted Strickland asked Amtrak to complete a detailed study of a potential "3-C" passenger rail route, linking Cincinnati, Dayton-Springfield, Columbus and Cleveland. That study is set to commence within the next few weeks and take 12 to 18 months to complete.

If the up to $5 billion funding for initial construction and equipment purchases is found (mainly through the feds, probably), the service could be up and running in a few years.

Unfortunately, it's entirely possible that the economic train has already left the station. During recent decades, when Americans stayed devoted to the automobile, places like Europe and Japan were developing and expanding their passenger rail systems and improving technology.

"If the money became available tomorrow to go out and buy all the equipment, in all likelihood we'd have to go overseas," said Nicholson. He said only two American companies currently build locomotives; only one builds passenger cars, and those are built in small numbers primarily for scenic railways. (Overseas companies do have manufacturing operations within the United States. They build mainly cars for light commuter railways.)

Passenger rail has the benefit of being more energy efficient, environmentally cleaner and safer than either automobile or air travel. And the time that passengers spend on a train can be used productively, or they can simply relax.
Passenger rail will be no panacea, immediate or otherwise. But rail travel should become a viable option within a truly integrated intermodal system.

For individuals who have already lost jobs, the train option doesn't offer a near-term solution, of course. Nevertheless, for auto communities to examine the possibility of a fledgling passenger rail industry makes sense. Even after rail systems are in place, new generations of trains will be needed regularly.

"There are a lot of people here who would embrace that greatly," said Willie Thorpe, the IUE/CWA benefits director who represented GM Moraine workers for years as the local's president and has negotiated on their behalf. "We've gone from making iceboxes to automobiles. Just bring it in and we can build it. Our people can adapt and do anything that needs to be done," he said.

For long-term development, it's certainly a more constructive idea than a casino. Even if a casino is built, how are people going to get there?

[w28th]

New developments such as these should be focused on the cities if the State ever wanted to take the advice of the Brookings Institute.  The core cities and their able and ample workforce could take advatage of these jobs and make the biggest impact on the economy.

[noozer]

News from Columbus....

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/news/article.asp?id=20766

Value Recovery Group investors acquire former Colorado Railcar DMU

Private investors affiliated with asset management firm Value Recovery Group Inc. (VRG) recently acquired the former Colorado Railcar Manufacturing L.L.C. diesel multiple unit (DMU) and plan to resume manufacturing the self-propelled passenger cars in a new U.S. manufacturing facility to be established later this year.

VRG formed US Railcar L.L.C., which will retain the acquired Colorado Railcar DMU proprietary rights and information, manufacturing documentation, inventory, tooling, fixtures/jigs and other production equipment.

“There is a major commitment by the Obama Administration and Congress to make investments in intercity and high-speed rail to promote economic growth and mobility, create jobs, conserve energy and address climate change,” said VRG Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Barry Fromm in a prepared statement. “This opens a new era for passenger trains and rail-car manufacturing in the United States.”

VRG appointed Michael Pracht president and CEO of US Railcar. He previously held various key positions at Siemens and Ansaldo STS.

US Railcar plans to manufacture both single- and bi-level DMUs designed to operate in all mixed-mode U.S. freight corridors. US Railcar’s DMU is the only Federal Railroad Administration-compliant DMU operating in North American revenue service, according to VRG.

Below is an example of what the former Colordao Railcar used to build:

[Living in Gin]

Doesn't Siemens already have some big manufacturing facility in the Cincinnati area? They're a big player in streetcar and light rail rolling stock, as well as German high-speed rail.

[noozer]

They might, but I don't believe they have a full-blown assembly operation anywhere in the U.S. currently.  Our home-grown rail car industry is, of course, long gone.... Pullman, Budd, American Car Foundry, et al.

[327]

I think that's correct, no assembly takes place in the US.  The most significant operation I know of is Bombardier's in Quebec.

[Living in Gin]

Whatever manufacturing Siemens does in Cincinnati, I'm pretty sure it isn't rail-related. The company is also a big maker of medical equipment and God-knows what else. They do have a presence in the area, though.

[dmerkow]

It's electrical switching equipment and its in Norwood. One of the oldest continually operating factories in Siemens as I recall.

[Living in Gin]

Trains and rail infrastructure certainly use a lot of electrical switching equipment. It would be nice to see the local Siemens plant get a piece of that action.

[noozer]

U.S. Railcar
200 jobs may roll in with business
Wednesday,  July 1, 2009 3:10 AM
By Marla Matzer Rose

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
http://dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2009/07/01/rail_car.ART_ART_07-01-09_A8_A7EB67B.html?sid=101

Eyeing federal stimulus money set aside for transportation projects, a Columbus company has purchased a defunct manufacturer of diesel-powered passenger railcars and is talking to the state about basing manufacturing operations in Ohio.

U.S. Railcar LLC would employ between 100 and 200 workers once a manufacturing site is established, said Barry Fromm, CEO of financial-services firm Value Recovery Group, lead investor in U.S. Railcar.

"It's not the only impetus, but when there are billions in stimulus funds in the wings, that can't hurt," he said.

His company is in talks with economic-development officials in Ohio and several other states about establishing a manufacturing site as soon as possible.

The Ohio Department of Development has had initial conversations with U.S. Railcar, department spokesman Robert Grevey said, adding that "a lot of details remain to be seen" regarding the specifics of the operation before U.S. Railcar could be considered for job-creation incentives.

The price paid for U.S. Railcar, whose ownership also includes other private investors, was not disclosed.

U.S. Railcar is the only company in the U.S. that produces this type of self-propelled, diesel-fueled railcar to runs on normal train tracks. The cars run very quietly and are fuel-efficient, he said. He hopes to play on the American-made angle when bidding on projects.

Another local company also might benefit from the deal.

Columbus Steel Castings, a South Side company, makes railcar undercarriages that have been used on the U.S. Railcar products in the past. Fromm said he has met with the company recently and "hopes to be able to work with them in the future."

U.S. Railcar traces its history to Colorado Railcar Manufacturing, which sold its cars to commuter-rail systems in suburban Portland, Ore., and Orlando, Fla.,before it faltered and was taken over by its lead bank.

In January, the Florida Department of Transportation was said to be scrambling to figure out how to maintain its 10 Colorado Railcar cars with the company out of business, The Tampa Tribune reported. Oregon media reported on cost overruns and equipment problems in Portland, where transportation agency TriMet bought cars to service commuters between the suburbs of Wilsonville and Beaverton but deliveries weren't made on time.

Fromm said he's confident that the company's product is a sound one and that, under new management, it will be embraced.

"I don't want to disparage the former management. They were in a pre-stimulus world," Fromm said. "Entering the transit industry at that time as a small player was a stroke of genius. But there were other factors, including their accounts receivable, that brought them down.

"We have the ability to be bonded and the ability to deliver."

Fromm knows something about railcars, though his experience has been more with the old-fashioned kind.

His company is based on the same site as the Depot, a rehabbed historic train depot that was moved from Brice Road to Old Henderson Road five years ago. He has restored several old trains that have gone on display at the site,which is rented out for special events.

mrose@dispatch.com