Topic: Beachwood: New Eaton Headquarters

[JeffreyT]

McCleveland - thanks for those images - excuse me while I cry now.

On topic though, it's a POV difference - those who understand the importance of city dynamics and community, and those that are hyper-individualistic.  It's sad that Eaton (and apparently many of their employees) is the latter.

[rockandroller]

McCleveland - thanks for those images - excuse me while I cry now.

On topic though, it's a POV difference - those who understand the importance of city dynamics and community, and those that are hyper-individualistic.  It's sad that Eaton (and apparently many of their employees) is the latter.

I think it would be great if our board could work harder to find the bridge between these two types of group. "Talking points" if you will, for when these types of issues come up in conversation.  The "individualistic" people as you label them (not a terrible label) aren't uncaring people who are rotten at their core, it's simply not clearly laid out why and how the demise of the downtown could negatively affect them in any way, in any news article or publication I've seen.  I mean, if I lived on the E side and was a typical "individualistic" type wal-mart shopper and my company was relocating there, what would I care if downtown folded into itself and died, in fact, they probably deserve it because it's dirty and there are bums everywhere.  I'm over-exaggerating, but only slightly.  How do you counter this with an argument they can understand?  You can't just say "because you should CARE about CLEVELAND."

[McCleveland]

You're right it is a POV difference.  And there are many that think the box in the suburb next to the stores is great... unfortunately that isn't many people under the age of about 35, and it's about no one under the age of 30.  And it isn't changing any time soon.  Either we give these people the dynamic urban environment that they want, or they will vote with their feet... and leave.  And then at some point, the great many companies (and we've got a lot) in their glass boxes in the suburbs will wonder why they can't attract younger talented people, and they too will leave to go where those people are.  And until the corporate leaders in this town understand that they have to do their part to turn this around... it will keep being an issue.

[JeffreyT]

McCleveland - thanks for those images - excuse me while I cry now.

On topic though, it's a POV difference - those who understand the importance of city dynamics and community, and those that are hyper-individualistic.  It's sad that Eaton (and apparently many of their employees) is the latter.

I think it would be great if our board could work harder to find the bridge between these two types of group. "Talking points" if you will, for when these types of issues come up in conversation.  The "individualistic" people as you label them (not a terrible label) aren't uncaring people who are rotten at their core, it's simply not clearly laid out why and how the demise of the downtown could negatively affect them in any way, in any news article or publication I've seen.  I mean, if I lived on the E side and was a typical "individualistic" type wal-mart shopper and my company was relocating there, what would I care if downtown folded into itself and died, in fact, they probably deserve it because it's dirty and there are bums everywhere.  I'm over-exaggerating, but only slightly.  How do you counter this with an argument they can understand?  You can't just say "because you should CARE about CLEVELAND."

I agree - and part of it is about information.  It's about understanding a bigger picture in the sense of the community around you, and how you can be affected both positively and negatively about every action you & others take.  As far as talking points about that - when I have them I'll write my book.

[w28th]

McCleveland - thanks for those images - excuse me while I cry now.

On topic though, it's a POV difference - those who understand the importance of city dynamics and community, and those that are hyper-individualistic.  It's sad that Eaton (and apparently many of their employees) is the latter.

I think it would be great if our board could work harder to find the bridge between these two types of group. "Talking points" if you will, for when these types of issues come up in conversation.  The "individualistic" people as you label them (not a terrible label) aren't uncaring people who are rotten at their core, it's simply not clearly laid out why and how the demise of the downtown could negatively affect them in any way, in any news article or publication I've seen.  I mean, if I lived on the E side and was a typical "individualistic" type wal-mart shopper and my company was relocating there, what would I care if downtown folded into itself and died, in fact, they probably deserve it because it's dirty and there are bums everywhere.  I'm over-exaggerating, but only slightly.  How do you counter this with an argument they can understand?  You can't just say "because you should CARE about CLEVELAND."

It's amusing that some people don't make the coorelation of the struggles of our cities with the struggles of our country.
Thanks for those images MCCleveland, what a shame.

[rockandroller]

McCleveland - thanks for those images - excuse me while I cry now.

On topic though, it's a POV difference - those who understand the importance of city dynamics and community, and those that are hyper-individualistic.  It's sad that Eaton (and apparently many of their employees) is the latter.

I think it would be great if our board could work harder to find the bridge between these two types of group. "Talking points" if you will, for when these types of issues come up in conversation.  The "individualistic" people as you label them (not a terrible label) aren't uncaring people who are rotten at their core, it's simply not clearly laid out why and how the demise of the downtown could negatively affect them in any way, in any news article or publication I've seen.  I mean, if I lived on the E side and was a typical "individualistic" type wal-mart shopper and my company was relocating there, what would I care if downtown folded into itself and died, in fact, they probably deserve it because it's dirty and there are bums everywhere.  I'm over-exaggerating, but only slightly.  How do you counter this with an argument they can understand?  You can't just say "because you should CARE about CLEVELAND."

It's amusing that some people don't make the coorelation of the struggles of our cities with the struggles of our country.
Thanks for those images MCCleveland, what a shame.

If they did, Wal-Mart wouldn't be as profitable as they are, and all the mom-and-pop stores they put out of business would still be thriving.  They just want convenience (everything in one place) and cheap (who cares what it's made with, and by whom and where).

[gotribe]

You're right it is a POV difference.  And there are many that think the box in the suburb next to the stores is great... unfortunately that isn't many people under the age of about 35, and it's about no one under the age of 30.  And it isn't changing any time soon.  Either we give these people the dynamic urban environment that they want, or they will vote with their feet... and leave.  And then at some point, the great many companies (and we've got a lot) in their glass boxes in the suburbs will wonder why they can't attract younger talented people, and they too will leave to go where those people are.  And until the corporate leaders in this town understand that they have to do their part to turn this around... it will keep being an issue.

Once the baby boomers are out of the corporate structure, retired, and no longer running large corporations, you will see a big change in the environments of the workplace.  I gaurantee that.  Sandy cutler comes from an era of urban flight and suburban sprawl as does many of his corporate counterpart big wigs.  Good Point McCleveland.

[Clvlndr in LV]

Thanks McCleveland, I'm glad you decided to post those renderings. Out of curiosity who were the architects?

[jpop]

Sandy cutler comes from an era of urban flight and suburban sprawl as does many of his corporate counterpart big wigs. 

I'm not sure if I'm ready to declare this era is over. I need to see much more people returning to the urban core en masse. I think we, as an American culture, are so obsessed with our little house in the suburbs and our meaningless comforts that it will still take much more for it to truly be declared dead, in my opinion.

I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but I just feel so discouraged about the whole urban flight issue. Is there hope?!?!? lol.

[McCleveland]

Sandy cutler comes from an era of urban flight and suburban sprawl as does many of his corporate counterpart big wigs. 

I'm not sure if I'm ready to declare this era is over. I need to see much more people returning to the urban core en masse. I think we, as an American culture, are so obsessed with our little house in the suburbs and our meaningless comforts that it will still take much more for it to truly be declared dead, in my opinion.

I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but I just feel so discouraged about the whole urban flight issue. Is there hope?!?!? lol.

I'm telling you, it's the boomers.  They just need to finish retiring and go away before they do any more damage.

[gotribe]

Sandy cutler comes from an era of urban flight and suburban sprawl as does many of his corporate counterpart big wigs. 

I'm not sure if I'm ready to declare this era is over. I need to see much more people returning to the urban core en masse. I think we, as an American culture, are so obsessed with our little house in the suburbs and our meaningless comforts that it will still take much more for it to truly be declared dead, in my opinion.

I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but I just feel so discouraged about the whole urban flight issue. Is there hope?!?!? lol.

Yeah, I just thought of Hyland Software.  Run by guys in their mid and late 30's.  I guess my point doesn't mean much.  Oh well, I tried.

[KJP]

The death of Tower City is no mystery to me as a female shopper. 

Since when did Tower City die? I don't see very many vacancies, which is pretty darn good considering the state of many other malls.

I'm not sure if I'm ready to declare this era is over. I need to see much more people returning to the urban core en masse. I think we, as an American culture, are so obsessed with our little house in the suburbs and our meaningless comforts that it will still take much more for it to truly be declared dead, in my opinion.

I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but I just feel so discouraged about the whole urban flight issue. Is there hope?!?!? lol.

I, for one, am hoping this credit crisis causes the entire debt-financed American suburban materialism to crash and burn. I would love to see Mr. and Mrs. Suburbia have to pawn their possessions before the banks find them and repossess them, and they have to actually live a sustainable lifestyle for a change.

That goes for Eaton which makes a lot of its money off automotive components. If they transition to making parts for electric and hybrid cars, they might do OK. But if they stick to the fossil-fueled dinosaurs of the past 115 years, then Eaton may too become a dinosaur.

[JDD941]

I hope these well thought ideas have been put into email form and sent to letter to the editor section of the PD.   I am sure if we bombard them a FEW of them have to be pronted.  Let Eaton know how the public views this move!

[redbrick]

Please tell me this "it's the baby boomer's fault" cry vis a vis the Eaton move is just venting for some of you. If it were only that simple. Ever work in San Jose, Orange County, Seattle for that matter? Plenty of bright, young entrepreneurs quite content with the whole "campus" arrangement...

I think what RNR is trying to say is that the anti-urban people have to be won over, or least neutralized, if we're to ever reverse the suburban out-migration trend of the last 50 years. As I said earlier in the thread, the general feelling among those 450 Eaton HQ workers about the move out east is most likely positive. It's a hearts and minds/PR battle folks and no progress if going to be made by bludgeoning people over the head with the city is great and the suburbs suck.

To bring it back to Eaton -- $25 million to keep 450 workers in the core, plus a fortune 500 headquarters. Let's assume they would grow to 500 employees, that would be $50,000/head. Sure wish I could have got the city to give me $250,000 in tax breaks for my 5 person consulting firm that I moved downtown. As much as we'd all like to see Eaton anchoring a new office tower in the CBD (I never liked the proposed campus in the flats), I rather have 100 new startup firms downtown, with jobs that attract people from outside the region (2 of my employees not originally from NEO) that actually appreciate all the city has to offer.

[rockandroller]

KJP, with all due respect, poll 100 women who work downtown and ask them if they think Tower City is a thriving mall they like to shop in, or a desolate shell, and they will say desolate shell.  A dunkin doughnuts, popcorn store, candy store, video games store, what else.  A claire's? which can be found at any mall and they don't follow you around the whole time staring at you like you're going to shoplift something?  a lady foot licker, which can also be found at any mall?  A baseball cap store?  Seriously, when people who like retail shopping want to shop, that's about the last destination I think they would choose.  I went over there some months ago seeking a decent pair of women's dress socks and the only thing I could find were the cheap-ass ones from Payless which don't fit right and run after one wearing.

[audidave]

Another major factor involved in this is company branding.  Is a company wanting to have a high profile and if it builds a skyscraper in a city and makes it a signature are there enough people that are going to see it?  Look to Akron.  Goodyear is a manufacturer with plenty of consumers.  They have always been off to the side of downtown Akron about 5-6 miles away pretty much on a campus.  They are expanding that campus and improving it with their new HQ.  What would the point be had Goodyear decided they wanted to build a signature skyscraper in downtown Akron?  There was no public outcry that Akron should have a giant new skyscraper.  How many people in the US will ever even see their HQ. 

Eaton doesn't have a consumer angle.
 
 The benefit for Goodyear is they have a lot of land on which to develop.  There are customers and suppliers that are interested in being closer to Goodyear and moving their offices to this new development.  Apparently some are even considering moving their hqs to be on the Goodyear Campus.  The same thing can and will happen for Eaton. 

That area currently has like 6 cranes up next to I-271.  I'm not sure what all the development is besides the new UH Hospital.  But I see 2-3 other cranes working on other projects.
 
On a side note-  This will be very confusing with Eton right there by Eaton. Perhaps Eat n Park will open a new restaurant there to really baffle people.

[Clvlndr in LV]

Since there has been some discussion here concerning which generation prefers this campus idea and why, I thought I would post this excerpt from the link I posted a couple pages back.

"...Parking and transportation issues in Calgary´s congested core are key drivers for the blossoming suburban office market. Add to that the ongoing labour shortage, predicted to worsen in the next decade as baby boomers retire, and it´s easy to understand why companies are trying new ways to attract high-quality employees. Avoiding long bus trips, rush hour traffic, and expensive parking is a strategy that works.

"People typically want to go where there´s a better lifestyle," says David Weinkauf, senior VP of Remington Development in Calgary. "The generation Xers [generally, people born between 1965 and 1980] particularly are looking more for lifestyle as opposed to just work, no play."The newest generations of workers are known for their desire for work/life balance. In Alberta, they have the luxury of selecting their employers rather than waiting to be chosen.
Remington Development´s newest corporate campus is part of a unique mixed-use development-Quarry Park-that will include up to 1.7 million sq. ft of office space and 91,000 sq. ft of retail. It also will include multi-family and single-family residences. The project is predicted to cost more than $1 billion.

Quarry Park has quick access to Calgary´s major routes. As well, it will offer lots of parking. That fact, Weinkauf says, played a major role in Jacobs Canada´s decision to move to Quarry Park next May.

"If they couldn´t have the parking, they would go elsewhere," Weinkauf says. "And from an economic standpoint, we don´t want to lose an employer of 2,000 people in this city."

Parking is also one of the reasons Bell Canada is pulling out of downtown Calgary and heading to Remington´s Westwinds Business Park. Weinkauf says that Bell made the decision to move to enhance employees´ lifestyles by providing a parking stall for everyone, access to amenities, and more space. Bell plans to move in December 2008..."

To be clear, I think it's horsesh*t. 

[CTownsFinest216]

bump eaton

they jake as hell

[CleveChiNola]

I am going to play devil's advocate here, I hope my suspension from the board is not too long.

Eaton is a "diversified manufacturer."  Eaton is actually a group of companies that sort of operate independently, such as Cutler-Hammer.  Maybe what Eaton wants to do is move all of its companies HQs to one campus.  Let the operate the way they have, but be closer to the parent company.  IF that is the case, it could possibly be thousands of new jobs for the region....just not the city.

All speculation on my part, but with their talk of space needs, it may be what they are thinking.

[metrocity]

Since there has been some discussion here concerning which generation prefers this campus idea and why, I thought I would post this excerpt from the link I posted a couple pages back.

Yeah, I was surprised at that article given how cosmopolitan Canadian cities are, however the article alludes to the fact that the whole idea is new to them and it sounds good on paper.  After a few years of working in one of these bunkers you feel like you are in the movie "office space".

I think the whole generational thing is true to a point, there are plenty of people no matter what generation that would be content working on one of these campuses the rest of their lives, but it does seem that boomers love that crap the most.  I think it is more of issue on the way that progressive cities are developing, and where the most educated workforce and go-getter types want to be.  We already see a major return to urban areas in the larger US cities, and companies are following that trend.   Many of the Chicago companies that abandoned the city years ago are now looking at expanding in the city because they can't lure the people they want to the suburban campuses.

I have worked in both suburban Chicago and Downtown and there is a marked difference of the type of employee that either one attracts.  Suburban offices have a lot more complacent and content people, and Downtown has a lot more of the go-getters.  Call a recruiter in Chicago for a job and they will give you a ton of suburban companies that want you.  Tell them you want to be in the loop and there is a lot less to choose from. 

When I read the articles about Cleveland not being able to attract enough high skilled talent, I wonder how many people come for an interview from outside the region, see the boring campuses and politely decline.  The company sits there and scratches it head wondering why they can't attract talent and blames the region and it's lack of an educated workforce.   

How about a new HQ downtown, AND an expansion in Beachwood for the future. 

[clvlndr]

There was also an editorial in the PD that brought up the fact that if Jackson made too much of a plea for them to stay downtown, it would betry his stance on regionalism, which I thought was an interesting point.

Problem is, as one Councilman noted (Polansek, I think), the intent of the Highlands land was to lure business from out of the region to Greater Cleveland, not businesses from downtown, the least being Cleveland's largest F500 HQ.    Maybe the Flats parcel wasn't big for Eaton, but what about elsewhere downtown, even near where the currently are which is just 'round the corner from Ave District?  Land space should in no way be an issue in an under-performing downtown like ours... Its clear Eaton's agenda is selfish

I also reject the ridiculous notion that Dick Jacobs -- the putative architect of Eaton's new Highland's home -- somehow is exempted here as some 'American Way' kinda guy who's simply trying to turn a buck... Isn't that the kind of "civic responsibility" by a biz leader that landed us in this current mess?  I'm certainly no Republican but, dammit, how much can our local government leaders legislate, or even mediate, hometown corporations out of doing the WRONG thing?

Eaton, like too many people/companies in this town are locked into the anti-urban/pro sprawl paradigm that is so outmoded, even Detroit (in luring CompuServe, Quicken Loans and GM downtown) even gets – a place even lacking the transit infrastructure we have..  (no, our biz/civic leaders are only unified in ramming a  freeway through the East Side to further the suburbanization – see more sprawl -- of the City). Eaton, Progressive and too numerous retail establishments view downtown (and even the City itself) as a place to run away from, even in light of a growing awareness of its value by residential developers.   Guess they intuitively understand the "... well, it could be worse" civic mentality all too pervasive in this town.

I reject even the hint this is somehow Frank Jackson's fault.  He entered office with a plan to lower suburban water rates to – for once in this damn place – to try and spark regional cooperation, and still we get B.S. like Eaton.   He's one of the few Cleve leaders who can see past yesterday.  What should he do, stand on his head on Public Square to demonstrate his indignation?

Eaton Corp.'s apparent decision to leave Cleveland for the suburbs would damage downtown and deal a colossal blow to Cleveland's image … If Cleveland's largest Fortune 500 company is allowed to flee downtown, it will make a significant statement about this city's leadership.  – today’s PD editorial

Perhaps, but Frank should be exempted; at least on this one...

[mrnyc]

holy schnickes mccleveland.

*bursts into tears*

a striking, jaunty building like that would have been bad-azz downtown.

reminds me of the last scene of planet of the apes, which i just caught this afternoon. i'd like to scream it in cutler's face: "You Maniacs! Ahhh, d*mn you! G*d d*mn you all to h*ll!"

well ok no, maybe not.

looking on the bright side it is only 450 jobs and at least eaton is not leaving the region. ugh. punch i can only hope your guess is correct.

[jpop]

The thing that I love about that building is the way their logo is "carved" into the building. I haven't seen many logos on a building that look that cool.

However, it would be a bitch once they left.. which is pointless to discuss, I guess.

But that is a very amazing building. I'm looking forward to seeing the WHD finally get on track because I really think some of that architecture will be very cool.

[simplythis]

PD article on FEB parcel which Eaton has passed on.//blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/09/development_efforts_go_on_for.html

[simplythis]

here's the link.  http://www.cleveland.com/business/

[jamiec]

I was working from our Chicago office when I saw this story come up. It was particularly frustrating with that juxtaposition.

[JLLamb]

Has anyone considered using the huge sections of land in the Flats (like west of collision bend) as corporate campuses? The views are spectacular with Ohio City to the west and downtown to the east... I can't believe all that empty greenspace hasnt been snatched up, even by Eaton!

[ytown2ctown]

Is this move to Beachwood a sure thing/ done del?

[jam40jeff]

It seems (especially with the design shown on the previous page) that Eaton really had the chance to do something special and make an even bigger name for themselves, especially in Stark's rendering.  Think about the publicity they would have received from that building.  Now think of the publicity they will get from a suburban campus...absolutely none.  Good for them and their stupid as$es.  (Yeah, it pisses me off...a lot.)

[simplythis]

City of Cleveland Deferred Compensation Tax Law Change is being considered. http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20080923/FREE/809234996/1008/newsletter01

[simplythis]

Can a change in city tax law be made to salvage this FEB Eaton project. What do you experts think?

[Flee2theCleve]

isn't this sort of tactic precisely what Frank Jackson's regionalism platform is so ardently opposed to doing?

[CleveChiNola]

I wonder if the CC goes to the current site, will FCE pitch to Eaton (or did they already??)

[Clvlndr in LV]

I wonder if the CC goes to the current site, will FCE pitch to Eaton (or did they already??)

I would certainly love to see it (see my reply#92 pg 4) but it looks as if FCE has no interest in developing that site; just selling it.

When you look at the renderings McCleveland posted and see what Eaton turned down from Stark, it seems clear they're just not interested in downtown. Hope I'm wrong.

[McCleveland]

By the way... someone wrote a letter to the editor in the PD today in regards to Eaton's proposed move (I tried to go to Cleveland.com to find the letter, but for some reason cleveland.com is taking me to cleveland.com mobile... is this happening to anyone else?).  But the gist of it was that he was a "gen y" person and he is appalled at this and called out to local leaders and businesses alike.  He even mentioned that people his age don't want anything to do with suburban offices, and it is no longer a question of choosing working downtown Cleveland or the Cleveland suburbs... their generation have already made that choice. It is a question of working downtown Cleveland or in another city.

Business leaders really need to get their arms around this.