Topic: Columbus Blue Jackets Discussion

[Summit Street]

go blue jackets!

[unusualfire]

I know some people have had hotel rooms reserved,events planned around the team, etc.

How has this lockout affected the city?

[buildingcincinnati]

Of course it has affected the city.  Nationwide Arena sitting dormant can't be helpful in any way.

Go Ducks.

[the pope]

nationwide is on your side

[mrnyc]

serves them all right. the greedy nhl sells hockey franchises like candy on halloween. it's totally destroyed the integrity of the league. the nhl should contract like six teams to regain its formerly ok standing. desperate wanna-be pro sports cities like columbus, with absolutely zero hockey history, have no business having an nhl team in the first place. that team would have been in cleveland where it belongs if gund would have allowed pro ice hockey in his arena but he won't.

i love hockey and i stick to the college game (go bgsu!). what? like i'm gonna be a rangers or islanders fan? i dont think so--haha!

[unusualfire]

Why bash Columbus? They have had no Major sports teams. It was ripe for one.

[Summit Street]

desperate wanna-be pro sports cities like columbus, with absolutely zero hockey history, have no business having an nhl team in the first place.

columbus has had pro hockey since 1966. what's so bad about them having a team? the attendance is phenomenal and people like it...

do you really think cleveland would support a fourth major league team?
and cleveland had an nhl team but lost it.




as for the topic, the nearby hotels are taking the biggest hits, but the restaurants and stuff are staying alive, although they have lost a bunch of business on hockey nights. there's been about no effect on the rest of the city(except no tax money collected from visiting teams)

[pcforsgren]

I certainly think it is hurting downtown, as there is no reason to go down there without the jackets playing.  There are a few bars and things but no one lives there and outside of the arena district, downtown Columbus leaves something to be desired.  Cleveland's downtown "feel" is far superior.  From what I have seen/heard Cincinnati's is better as well.  I am not trying to rag on columbus per se, but in a side by side comparison I think most people would agree that Cleveland and Cincinnati are more urban then the capital city.  Opinions anyone?

[zaceman]

^ oh well thats obvious, cincy and cleveland are the REAL big cities where columbus isnt quite so.  not that it isnt urban.

why doesnt columbus have other major sports venues?  i mean i think it could very well support 2 or 3 different kinds of sports.

but see i think this issue highlights the problems some cities have.  being reliant on one thing, the sports sh!t.  and when the team does bad or leaves the city all the retail and area around the stadiums suffer.  Im glad cleveland realizes this now, heh i mean its nice to see other paths being taken in making downtown nice rather than just relying on the stadia to fix it.

[pcforsgren]

Two Words: OHIO STATE.  That's why Columbus doesn't have any pro sports.  The city is crazy about Ohio State and everything that relates to it, leaving little time for any pro sports to gain acceptance.  I found it very interesting that any pro sport franchise can survive in the city with Ohio State in town.

[seanguy]

UMM going back to the original intention of this post...

Has columbus felt there being no NHL? yes but there is more than enough to counter balance it

First, there are so many cities with pro teams that are way smaller than columbus it should be no surprise the city can support pro teams.  A pro football team may be a different story but pro sports in general theres more than enough people to support teams

There isn't just one pro place as the crew had the first only soccer stadium in the country.  And the facts on the old hockey league in the 60s are right.

Now I live in the city and the nationwide arena is not sitting empty. (person up there who said that obviously doesnt do anything in downtown or he would know different)
There have been other events and there is A LOT of clubs bars in the city and around the city that are pumping and full almost everynite.  

As far as the restaurants in the arena district of course they will loose money but people still go to them, business, people going out for a different experience, or to go to the arena grand movie theater as its the best one in the city.  

Also right now downtown is full of entertainment events.
How many people here actually knew about these events before talking about NHL being the only draw in downtown, im not sure...

 The Radio City Music Hall Rocketts at the Ohio (WHICH actually was produced in Columbus in the arena district as was the Boston's and st.louis productions)
two musicals Miss Saigon and the producers those just in Dec at the palace,
the nutcracker at the Ohio,
and the southern with a Christmas carol.  
Then two theater companies are using the riffe center.  
Plus nationwide has a circus for a week or so.  
PromoWest Pavilion in the arena district is always having concerts and draws people who eat in the district
So there's a lot of events drawing people, in the winter months, to downtown.  And with some AFL starting up the arena district isn't hurting that bad at all.

Not to mention the area of high street just north of the arena district has seen the opening of about 4-5 restaurants/stores alone in the past 4 months, which all seem to be doing pretty well, I would say the draw for downtown business has been underestimated and is now more accurately reaching its potential.

[pcforsgren]

^ Not sure if that was directed at me, but I didn't say/mean that the arena wasn't used.  My intent was to say that the arena district is certainly taking a hit as far as people in the area on a daily basis.  I am sure that the bars/clubs are doing fine on weekends, but I have spent time downtown in the evenings on weekdays and I have seen a large dropoff in activity.  Mongolian BBQ, a place that is always hopping and always has long waiting times, was deserted.  The arena district in general seemed to be rather empty.  Just the impression I have been getting when I go down there since the jackets shut down.  Looking at the arena's schedule for the next few months, it starts to thin out in Jan-Feb, as it is certainly a tall order to replace the almost daily hockey games with special events.  Again, my point is not to rag on Columbus or anything, the lack of foot traffic is a problem that all the "three C" cities are facing.  The NHL strike and impact on cities is a good example of the problem though.

[buildingcincinnati]

^ It was probably directed at me.  Of course I shouldn't have said it's sitting dormant, but it certainly isn't being used to its full, intended capacity.  I do realize that arenas also have things outside of sports.

No, I don't do anything in downtown Columbus.  Especially since I live in Cincinnati.

[pcforsgren]

Ah ok.  I was wondering.  Yeah they do, but I don't think anyone would argue that the main purpose of nationwide and the arena district was the NHL.  Without the NHL, the main draw is nonexistant.  Foucusing on major sports as the be all, end all was what has contributed to Cleveland's downtown decline, and the buildup of downtown housing, residents, and other attractions are what will contribute to it's renissance and long-term sustainability IMO.

[buildingcincinnati]

Agreed there.   I like how the Arena District has tried to have a broad appeal (sports/activities, restaurants/bars, residential) from the beginning.

[mrnyc]

hey now i am not picking on columbus at all. my comment is more that the nhl has fallen from grace by diluting it's product so terribley via expansion to cities who buy a franchise and have zero hockey history. or next to zero. btw--whoever mentioned that columbus has had pro hockey since the 60's is incorrect, i lived there from late eighties to early 90's and there was no pro hockey there at all. and certainly no hs hockey at all (this is really where i was coming from re cleveland's nationally known hs hockey programs not nec their old pro teams). columbus prob has some hs hockey around now of course and good for them, but that is recent news. don't get me wrong, i am happy for columbus to havve a team, i'm just rather p.o'ed at the nhl product in general.

as to the arena district hurting from the strike, from what i've seen and heard of that area it has new bars and prob is still zipping along regardless. i'm sure it's hurting from game night business, but not all that bad. the areas along high street from osu into downtown always have steady business its the entertainment strip of the city (it's the only street in town as we used to say -- haha).

[Summit Street]

Columbus Checkers | 1966-70
Columbus Golden Seals | 1971-73
Columbus Owls | 1973-77
Columbus Chill | 1991-99


yeah, from 78 through 90 there was no pro hockey....

but then again, cleveland went a few years without pro football

[mrnyc]

summit not to burst your bubble, but any decent college squad could have beaten those sub-minor league franchises. well the chill anyway, whatever that was, but i heard about it. although if they and i were still around (and despite the bad nickname) i'd be there over the watery nhl product anyday!

[JohnOSU99]

In 1994 Columbus had only one sheet of ice (OSU), now it has 10 sheets of ice and hockey fever is growing like crazy here.  I took some hockey classes at the Dublin Chiller and they were overcrowded with people from little kids to senior citizens.  I've talked to some people at Jackets games who are from Toronto, New York, and Detroit and they seemed pleasantly suprised at how well the NHL has been recieved in Columbus and how crazy Jackets fans get at games despite our dismal records.

Most hockey mad people (read Canadians) are pissed off about places like Florida, Texas, and Arizona getting NHL teams, but most of the Canucks that I've talked to say they think Columbus is a great place for hockey, not just because the city supports it so well (we have a great attendance record), but also because the Blue Jackets are really Ohio's hockey team and they know Ohio has a long history of hockey including minor league teams and great college teams like BGSU and Miami of Ohio.  I guess they could have put the Blue Jackets in Cleveland, but the bottom line is Ohioans have needed an NHL team that they could call their own and Columbus' central location makes it a great place to have Ohio's only NHL team.

[Frank V]

Maybe the question shouldn't be "how's Columbus doing with the NHL on strike"?  The real question should be "has the general public in the USA noticed that the NHL was on strike"?

The sad thing is that most people havn't noticed.  That does not bode well for the future of the NHL.

[Summit Street]

summit not to burst your bubble, but any decent college squad could have beaten those sub-minor league franchises. well the chill anyway, whatever that was, but i heard about it. although if they and i were still around (and despite the bad nickname) i'd be there over the watery nhl product anyday!

you didnt burst my bubble, i know they werent major league or anything....and sometimes decent college teams could beat the blue jackets.

 the chill were fun games to go to, they were echl..and all they do is fight  

[Magyar]

summit not to burst your bubble, but any decent college squad could have beaten those sub-minor league franchises. well the chill anyway, whatever that was, but i heard about it. although if they and i were still around (and despite the bad nickname) i'd be there over the watery nhl product anyday!

you didnt burst my bubble, i know they werent major league or anything....and sometimes decent college teams could beat the blue jackets.

 the chill were fun games to go to, they were echl..and all they do is fight  

And the Chill had a (then) minor league record for consecutive sellouts at 80 something games (over two seasons) around 1990.

I'm still trying to figure out MrNYC's arguement?
Is it an anti NHL rant?  An anti sports expansion rant? A bash Columbus rant?  All of the above?

[ColDayMan]

What you folks don't realize about the Arena District (aka General Public) is that it is adding residential development significantly (far more rapid pace than downtown Cincinnati or downtown Cleveland) and is projected to hit the 7,000ish unit (just for the district, folks) by 2010.  The Arena Crossings, Buggyworks, St. James, and various other unnamed projects are being sprung around McFearson (or whatever it's called) Commons and those surface lots you see...bye bye.  I went to a meeting for Nationwide developers for my class at OSU and saw the grand scheme and everything is right on track.

Thus, is the Arena District hurting CURRENTLY with the NHL lockout?  Sure.  Will it hurt in 10 years...no.  20 years?  Hell no.  Downtown Columbus is transforming and it's good to see they don't want to sit idle (thank you Mr. Coleman).  

And trust me, I'm not the typical city-booster; I cover the entire state now, folks .

[pcforsgren]

Wait... 7,000 units?  If that is the case, why is their projected population in 2010 so much lower then Cleveland's downtown projected population?  Cleveland is around 21,000 if I remember, Columbus was only in the 6,000ish range.

[ColDayMan]

"Projections" is a term of "current state rate." Meaning, if Columbus is "on track" of the same amount of development (without anything called on; proposed; etc) it would reach 6,000.  But of course, these are new proposals, new projects, downtown residential climates change, blah blah.  It's the nature of the business.  Thus, if 7,000 come to the Arena District alone + the numerous other projects going on downtown = projection null & void.  

Learn one thing:  Trust no projections.  Las Vegas and Phoenix are testaments to that.

[mrnyc]

magyar --- my fellow magyar i might add ---- just to clarify, but any rant in the tone of tmy posts was most defiantely an anti-nhl rant.

this was quite an informative thread. i am happy to hear columbus has a few ice arenas now. they had only osu for so long. at least the northeast ohio teams will have some new high schools to play now. that's great, cols have no hockey history, but it looks like they sure will as time goes by.

also, to whoever said ohio needs an nhl team regardless of where it's located, i'd agree if the nhl product was still relevant as a serious national league and sport, but it's not what it once was and it's game has lost its credability. thats why no one is talking about the strike much, even here in otherwise hockey crazy new york. it's a shame pro hockey has sabatoged itself so much and fallen off the radar and out of the public consciousness. maybe it'll come back like baseball did we'll see.

[Cincy45202]

1. Columbus was near top in NHL attendance.
2. Near top in MLS in attendance.
3. Only a handful of stadiums on the planet that hold as many fans as Ohio Stadium.
4. MLB & NFL won't franchise because to close to Cincy & Cleveland. But if they had them they would be well supported and probably near top in atttendance.
4. Would you trade Ohio Stadiums 105,000 seats for a much smaller NFL stadium? You can take Ohio Stadium seats and fill some NFL stadiums 2X!! And if you ever been to a OSU game you will know that there are a ton of fans outside that want in.
Columbus could easily support another Pro team and I'm surprised they haven't got one. When the NBA, NFL, MLB wake-up and realize that places like memphis (grizzlies), tampabay (devilrays),  miami (dolphins & marlins), phoenix (cardinals) denver (rockies) aren't working and could be supported elsewhere.
MLS already disbanned their teams in miami & tampabay, and that saved face foor soccer in america.

[buildingcincinnati]

^ Please don't compare college stadiums to pro stadiums.  Should we put pro football in Knoxville, State College and Ann Arbor now?

[Magyar]

^ Please don't compare college stadiums to pro stadiums. Should we put pro football in Knoxville, State College and Ann Arbor now?

They can drop 95,000 across the street from my apartment into "Death Valley" at LSU.  But that doesn't mean the Saints would make a one way, 80 mile roadie from New Orleans to Baton Rouge.
Same with the Lions and Ann Arbor.

[Cincy45202]

I'm saying that Columbus could support a NFL & MLB team rather easily! Without the same people attending both games, as would happen in knoxville or baton-rouge. People that go to tennessee games in knoxville drive from all over their state. Most, not all OSU fans that attend their games are from Franklin Co., just look in the parking lot. But I don't think knoxville would rather have a NFL team either! People down here in Cincinnati rarely talk about OSU or other teams outside of Cincy metro, just like people in Columbus don't talk about Bengals or Bearcats or Muskees but they do support the Reds a tad bit. Same thing in Cleveland too. Toledo is by far a Cleveland fan over Cincinnati, as Dayton supports Cincy.

[buildingcincinnati]

^ I thought Toledo was more of a Detroit town.  The Toledo Blade read like the Freep.  Their sports section was almost all Tigers.

[Magyar]

I'm saying that Columbus could support a NFL & MLB team rather easily! Without the same people attending both games, as would happen in knoxville or baton-rouge. People that go to tennessee games in knoxville drive from all over their state. Most, not all OSU fans that attend their games are from Franklin Co., just look in the parking lot. But I don't think knoxville would rather have a NFL team either! People down here in Cincinnati rarely talk about OSU or other teams outside of Cincy metro, just like people in Columbus don't talk about Bengals or Bearcats or Muskees but they do support the Reds a tad bit. Same thing in Cleveland too. Toledo is by far a Cleveland fan over Cincinnati, as Dayton supports Cincy.

Columbus is a reds/browns town.  (or at least they were before Modell pulled the team originally).  That was the balance act here.
Now as to Columbus support major league sports (other than the Blue Jackets); if you remove Ohio State sports out, sure.  But Columbus's place, and this population's intrenched loyalties, would make baseball & footbal set for failure (Maybe basketball as well, but I'm not so sure).

[buildingcincinnati]

Columbus follows pro sports based on who's doing better (even the TV people and the sportswriters acknowledge this).  There are a lot of Reds fans and a lot of Tribe fans...in the 1970s or around 1990 there were more Reds fans than Tribe fans.  In the late 90s when the Tribe made their run, there were more Indians fans.  Same with the Browns/Bengals.

[nsc]

Since the Browns are so awesome this year, is Columbus a Brownstown.

[JohnOSU99]

I think Columbus tends to lean towards the Browns/Indians because we have so many ex-clevelanders living here.  Whenever I talk to people out at the bars it seems like 75% of them moved to Columbus from the Cleveland area.