Topic: Is Florida Over? Florida's Loss Could Be Ohio's Gain

[Florida Guy]

Long but interesting read from the Wall Street Journal. Is it a matter of time before states like Ohio become more attractive for those seeking a more affordable place to live?

Is Florida Over?
By CONOR DOUGHERTY
September 29, 2007

Tampa, Fla.

"Own Your Own Home in Florida for $350 down. Total Price $4,950 includes house and lot. It's Pompano Beach Highlands on the famed Florida east coast!"

http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB119100802312142956.html

[oakiehigh]

Interesting stuff!     

You read of water problems throughout the south and out in the southwestern desert, and mix that with cost of living issues with Florida and California.

The Midwest may soon start to see a boom that could last for several decades!    Lord knows we have the existing empty housing stock to support it.

[DanB]

I'll stay if they do something about retirement account taxes.  If not, I have to go.

[Florida Guy]

^ In OH or FL?

[DanB]

Ohio, sorry.

My parents moved to Cape Coral in 1974, built a home on a river access canal for $30,000.  My mother sold it in 1989 for $120,000 and moved to Cincinnati to be near us.  Now, developers are paying over $300,000 and are tearing down these homes, and building mansions on 2+ lots.  It was so crowded when she moved, it was impossible to get to Sanibel or Ft. Myers Beach.  I can't imagine what it is like now.

[xumelanie]

My brother lives in Florida, and he is constantly complaining about things such as traffic, poor planning, high property taxes, and declining house values. 

[3231]

Interesting stuff!     

You read of water problems throughout the south and out in the southwestern desert, and mix that with cost of living issues with Florida and California.

The Midwest may soon start to see a boom that could last for several decades!    Lord knows we have the existing empty housing stock to support it.

Looks like Tennessee is benefitting a lot from the Florida problems.

[oakiehigh]

Knoxville has blown up within this past decade.

[smith]

Interesting stuff!     

You read of water problems throughout the south and out in the southwestern desert, and mix that with cost of living issues with Florida and California.

The Midwest may soon start to see a boom that could last for several decades!    Lord knows we have the existing empty housing stock to support it.

Looks like Tennessee is benefitting a lot from the Florida problems.

Charlotte, NC is getting a lot of retirees these days.  Sorry to say it, but I don't see Florida's loss being Ohio's gain.  These people who are looking to retire down south will still do it, just by going to NC, SC, GA, etc.  I suppose increase in home prices in FL may mean an Ohioan will be more likely stay put, but I doubt this will have much of an affect on Ohio.  I know some people in Charlotte and in real estate in Charlotte and they tell me even as homes sales are down nationwide they are doing fine.

[Rob Jaques]

Arizona has recently become the new Florida. Everyone is moving there!

[Florida Guy]

Looks like Tennessee is benefitting a lot from the Florida problems.

As is Georgia and the Carolinas. Tennessee is being smart with TV ads and a full page ad in todays newspaper; 7+ acres in the Pisgah National Forest $79,000, 7+ acres with 2,500 sq ft log home $119,000.

Cleveland should do the same; x-jobs in the medical and technology fields with starting salaries from x with examples of costs of living like housing.

[oakiehigh]

Arizona has recently become the new Florida. Everyone is moving there!

I think all of that uncontrolled growth is about to catch up and bite these folks in the ars.

Water and the high cost and lack there of will probably be the ultimate downfall to Zona.     

Is it true TN doesn't have a state income tax?   
I heard thier sales tax is 10 or 11 percent though.

[3231]

I used to live in Nashville and Memphis. There is no state nor municipal income tax. Sales tax is about 10% and I don't think that it can go any higher per their constitution.

[Florida Guy]

^ With the exception of tax on interest and dividends.

[oakiehigh]

Huh!     I think I like that type of tax structure.  It's a little more cut and dry, plus wouldn't people who are not frivolous with there money stand to benefit more from this?

[X]

Certainly people who are already able to save some money, because they make more of it, stand to benefit from that system.  Sorry if you're living paycheck to paycheck, though.  It's called a regressive tax, because the actual taxation rate for the individual is highest for those who can least afford it.

[Florida Guy]

My brother lives in Florida, and he is constantly complaining about things such as traffic, poor planning, high property taxes, and declining house values. 

I'm sure he would remind you not to leave out the outrages property insurance premiums.

[ohio1221]

Thats funny! Earlier today I was noticing all the florida license plates in the fountain square south garage. Hmm...

[oakiehigh]

^I have been noticing more of those plates around town also!

[KJP]

My folks use to spend winters in Orlando. They sold their condo in 2006 for more than twice what they paid for it eight years earlier. Their condo stayed on the market for all of two days! While they got tired of the traffic (I-4 through Orlando at noon was always stop-and-go), the big reason they left is because they got too old to make the trips back and forth each fall and spring. Rather than stay in Florida, they opted to stay in Ohio -- closer to family.

[unusualfire]

Ohio, sorry.

My parents moved to Cape Coral in 1974, built a home on a river access canal for $30,000.  My mother sold it in 1989 for $120,000 and moved to Cincinnati to be near us.  Now, developers are paying over $300,000 and are tearing down these homes, and building mansions on 2+ lots.  It was so crowded when she moved, it was impossible to get to Sanibel or Ft. Myers Beach.  I can't imagine what it is like now.

My mom has some property in a place called Leigh high acres. It's east of Fort Meyers. The lot cost $4000 in 2005 now it's worth over 40k in 2007. It on paved roads but no utilities for about 3 miles around it. I wonder if they started to put in electricity down the road since the prices sky rocketed.

[UncleRando]

From my short stint in Atlanta, where there are lots of transplants, I picked up on a trend of people who were formally from the Midwest and/or Northeast who said they came down South for job opportunities.  But if they then stated that they would LOVE to return back home to the Midwest and/or Northeast...that is if they could financially do it.

My point being that many people did not choose to migrate South out of pure preference of a more temperate climate, but rather it was focused around economics.  If that economic playing field can be leveled then all bets are off.

[ohio1221]

Alot of people make the move when they are financially able & then find it was a mistake & they are stuck not being able to move back.

[GCrites80s]

I know that I would have more job opportunities in the South, Charlotte and Atlanta especially, but I was afraid of that very issue (not liking it and being stuck). I'm glad I stayed.

[Florida Guy]

When I moved from Cleveland for college, I had two choices, Pittsburgh or Fort Lauderdale. I chose Fort Lauderdale. I didn't have any plans to stay or leave after college, it was just a wait and see type thing. That was 17 years ago and I'm still here. I am very used to the warm weather and really don't like winter except when I can enjoy it for a week or two and then get on a plane and return to the warm sunshine.

There are a lot of things I miss about Ohio, especially family. I have a good job here that would be hard to walk away from. Do I feel stuck? No not really. Someday I will live in both Florida and Ohio but until then I will continue to visit 3 or 4 times per year. Thanks to the housing market that goal will be later instead of sooner.

Then again one major hurricane can change all of this in a matter of minutes.

[From Heights to Harlem]

I think this could be applied to several markets that are overpriced and bloated, like the Northeast.  Thanks to Urban Ohio, I realize I can do anything in Cleveland I can in NYC except party until 5 AM.

When I moved from Cleveland for college, I had two choices, Pittsburgh or Fort Lauderdale. I chose Fort Lauderdale. I didn't have any plans to stay or leave after college, it was just a wait and see type thing.

There are a lot of things I miss about Ohio, especially family. I have a good job here that would be hard to walk away from. Do I feel stuck? No not really. Someday I will live in both Florida and Ohio but until then I will continue to visit 3 or 4 times per year.

That is how I feel.  I left Cleveland because I couldn't find a jog after graduating from OSU.  I looked for 6 months and didn't want to work at a Bank, Sherwin-Williams, BP I wanted to work in a creative field and the market in Cleveland at that time was small.  So I left for NYC. 

From a job stand point if I were to transfer home, it would affect my salary which can't exactly be offset by the sale of my condo for a home in Cleveland.  Right after 9/11, I thought about moving back home but the negatives out weighed the positives, so like you, increased visits is what I do to get by.

I hear about friends back home in Cleveland moving into great houses or condos in great neighborhoods and wonder what my life would have been like if I stayed at home.  I lost a decade, struggling to stay afloat financially.  I don't think that would have been the case in Cleveland.

About a month ago, I met with some people currently living in Atlanta that I went to High School with and they hate Atlanta and realized that the "black mecca" is joke and it more racially divided than Cleveland. One works at Equifax and one works at Crawford hospital.  The one at equifax is not feeling that he'll be promoted and the one at the hospital thought he could grow in a new hospital but is not challenged the way he was at University Hospital.   They're in the process of moving back home but their house has been on the market for 5 months and they don't see it getting any better as foreclosures and apartment overbuilding have made selling really hard.  The one thing they said they miss.  The lake and the varying Cleveland neighborhoods.

[Johio]

The only way I'd ever move south/west would be for an employment opportunity that I could simply not pass up. It's not that the south/west is bad place...both are rather beautiful and intriguing in their own respect but for me there is just something captivating about living in the Midwest/North.

[Florida Guy]

Time magazine expressing its love of Florida, again...

Thursday, Jul. 10, 2008
Is Florida the Sunset State?
By Michael Grunwald/Miami

Water Crisis Mortgage Fraud Political Dysfunction Algae Polluted Beaches Declining Crops Failing Public Schools Foreclosures

Greetings from Florida, where the winters are great!

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1821648,00.html