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Author Topic: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch  (Read 85852 times)

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Offline natininja

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #630 on: February 05, 2013, 02:59:46 PM »
I got an email that had a rendering in it and frankly it looks like crap. Keep Clifton Natural Foods, the Christy's building, and the houses on Lyon Street. That's too much historic fabric to lose for more EIFS. Hopefully the developer REALLY wants to build and ends up reworking their plans to just fill in the parking lot instead of tearing anything down.

Sounds like the CUFNA, while wanting to preserve the historic buildings, also would not want to give up any parking. Would be nice if a deal could be worked out with the garage owners across the street at U Square, to offer spaces out of there to residents of the new place.

Offline CincyGuy45202

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #631 on: February 05, 2013, 03:38:19 PM »
Rents at the U Square garage are $95 a month, and are open to anyone not just residents of the apartments.

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #632 on: February 05, 2013, 04:15:00 PM »
I think the issue here is Christy's can't really remain a viable business without 10 or so parking spaces, and when that's combined with the space needed to move those cars to said spaces in combination with the Christy's footprint then it really eats into the space available to the developer.  Spaces in the garage for Christy's would mean doing a public parking element which means it might have to be staffed or whatever, although I'd imagine that parking meters in the ground floor of the garage would work just as well.  I mean, if you're going to choose houses to tear down, tear down more on Lyon St. and save Christy's. 

Offline neilworms

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #633 on: August 07, 2013, 02:25:35 AM »
The Goetz house days are numbered: http://news.cincinnati.com/comments/article/20130806/NEWS010801/308060114/Council-won-t-save-Goetz-House

The Clifton Heights community council did a wonderful job, I wish more neighborhood associations were as good as they were at fighting this issue.  I tip my hat to their hard work.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 02:26:43 AM by neilworms »

Offline jjakucyk

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #634 on: August 07, 2013, 02:53:47 AM »
It's important to note that houses like that have made way for bigger and usually better development in many cities throughout history.  Central Park West, Lake Shore Drive, and many inner-city streets used to be littered with such houses.  In the case of some of the Central Park West mansions, they were demolished after only 20 or 30 years to make way for some of the treasured Art Deco apartment buildings that now stand.  It's what I've said before about making the situation a net positive in the end.  If they were wanting to tear the Goetz House down for a parking lot or freestanding McDonalds then that would be a much different situation.

I have to agree with Sittenfeld that going after landmark designation so late in the game, just to prevent redevelopment, really isn't the way to do things.  It's a knee-jerk reaction on the one hand, and really isn't the right use for the historic designation process.  That said, the Clifton Heights Community Council now has an opportunity to hold the developer's feet to the fire.  The tradeoff for losing the Goetz House should be that the developer has to provide a better product to help compensate for the loss.  They can and should be held to a higher standard of design and build quality. 

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #635 on: August 07, 2013, 02:56:06 AM »
Unfortunately they won't be. The development plan for the site is pretty awful. The rendering and plans they've shown are typical of what has already gone up in the area. Biggest benefit will be the removal of the massive parking lot there, but a massive parking garage will abut Lyon Street. It's going to be ugly. Everyone should be prepared for disappointment.

Offline ryanlammi

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #636 on: August 07, 2013, 02:59:43 AM »
^That block of Lyon will be decimated by the (I believe 3-story) parking garage and demo of 3 houses on Lyon.

It's a sad day for Clifton Heights. Hopefully we can be a little more proactive in the future about endangered historic properties.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 03:02:54 AM by ryanlammi »
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Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #637 on: August 07, 2013, 03:26:19 AM »
Hopefully. I have no problem with new development of a larger scale, student housing, etc. Or even parking garages. They just have to be done right and without harming the character of a neighborhood. This development does very little right and most certainly harms the character of Clifton Heights. The Goetz House, although in a less than favorable state, is still a gem and important piece of Cincinnati history and the buildings on the corner of West Clifton and McMillan are unique in their architecture. The loss of the houses on Lyon is bad as well, although I'd rank that as the last of the concerns in terms of what is being demolished.

At the very least it's good that the building will front both McMillan and West clifton. And from what I remember the garage will be two stories on Lyon Street. The wing fronting West Clifton will be three stories and the main part fronting McMillan will be five stories. The lowest level of the garage and Clifton wing will be a story lower than the entrance level of the main building.

I'm just really hoping for better materials to be used at this point. Losing quality architecture and replacing it with EIFS sides crapitecture yet again would be infuriating.

Offline neilworms

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #638 on: August 07, 2013, 03:29:54 AM »
Quote
The tradeoff for losing the Goetz House should be that the developer has to provide a better product to help compensate for the loss.  They can and should be held to a higher standard of design and build quality.

Someone needs to contact this guy in Columbus if they are going to do anymore infill around the University: http://www.woodcompanies.com/  3CDC should get his number too!
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 03:56:05 AM by neilworms »

Offline jjakucyk

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #639 on: August 07, 2013, 03:41:12 AM »
The only two options shouldn't be "no-build" and "the crappy plan already proposed."  This is why I say the community council should go to the developers and dish out some tough love. 

Offline neilworms

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #640 on: August 07, 2013, 04:06:32 AM »
Its funny soapbox wrote an article that pretty much fits in to exactly what's being talked about here: http://soapboxmedia.com/features/080613dbarchitecture.aspx

Offline neilworms

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #641 on: August 08, 2013, 02:43:41 PM »
I'm curious what the architects think of the infill presented in this piece in NYC: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3445_162-57585020/the-newest-thing-in-architecture-something-old/

Offline Jimmy_James

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #642 on: August 09, 2013, 01:25:48 AM »
^I am not an architect, but I love it.  I especially like that it's built the "old way", and isn't just plywood with a faux brick exterior.  I also like the photo of the restaurant interior they did for another building.  Again, it looks like it's actually from 1900, not like it's trying to imitate 1900.  I've always thought it was valid to embrace great design from any period and replicate it, rather than always try to push past what has worked previously.
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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #643 on: September 24, 2013, 04:30:05 AM »
I know the Goetz House issue is settled at this point, but I mentioned it on Twitter today and ended up starting a debate on the topic.

I think the developers are evil geniuses for making the current owners demolish the home before selling them the property. That way, the story is not framed as some Big Bad Developer trying to demolish it -- it's a hard-working elderly couple who need to demolish it so they can sell their land and retire comfortably. And I think that narrative has succeeded; a lot of people on Twitter and elsewhere are looking at this as a victory for the building's current owners, in a very Tea Party "personal property rights" kind of way.

I think there is very little hope for historic preservation in the uptown area. With demolitions like the Friar's Club, the Schiel School, the Goetz House, and numerous homes in Corryville, the urban fabric has already been damaged too badly. UC is even demolishing historic buildings on campus, claiming that Wilson Auditorium is too expensive to renovate. What is the future of other historic buildings such as Old St. George or the University YMCA?

Offline natininja

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #644 on: September 24, 2013, 05:12:12 AM »
Is it time to pragmatically cede that preservation is not going to happen, and shift efforts to demanding quality in new construction? At least UC is building with design in mind. Private developers are tearing down beautiful structures and replacing them with utter garbage. I feel much better about the prospects for Wilson's replacement than the Goetz House's.

Offline Jimmy_James

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #645 on: September 24, 2013, 07:25:13 AM »
^If so, then it's also the time to focus on salvage efforts of demolished properties.  So many of the places are just bulldozed, when they should have a crew carefully removing items of value (balusters, transoms, fireplaces, hardwood floors, etc.) first, so that they're available for restoration efforts elsewhere.  I'm sure there are private businesses that do this type of thing.  I think it just isn't focused on because neither side wants to consider it; the developer wants the existing buildings gone as quickly as possible and the preservationists don't want them demolished at all.  At some point, someone has to recognize that letting the entire building end up in a landfill is a loss for everyone involved.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 07:25:43 AM by Jimmy_James »
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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #646 on: September 24, 2013, 07:33:54 AM »
It's unbelievable how people can take things for granted. Downtown Columbus in 1989 taught me everything I needed to know about preservation. Maybe there's some kind of scary tram tour of Columbus '89 that they can send Cincinnatians on so that they learn to appreciate what they have.

Offline CincyGuy45202

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #647 on: September 29, 2013, 06:01:16 AM »
Davis Furniture building demo permit has been applied for.  Plan is to demolish it for parking.  Ironically, the streetcar is supposed to stop in front of that building.

Also, the Dennison Hotel building has just been purchased by the Joseph auto group, who owns the giant surface lot adjacent to the property.  They are certainly interested in tearing it down.

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #648 on: September 29, 2013, 06:13:22 AM »
Thats disappointing. I thought 3CDC has plans for that building a few years ago.
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Offline natininja

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #649 on: September 29, 2013, 06:36:34 AM »
Also, the Dennison Hotel building has just been purchased by the Joseph auto group, who owns the giant surface lot adjacent to the property.  They are certainly interested in tearing it down.

Time to apply for historic designation is now, not after permits are applied for. Gogogogogo

Offline CincyGuy45202

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #650 on: September 29, 2013, 07:08:25 AM »
Thats disappointing. I thought 3CDC has plans for that building a few years ago.

A 3CDC affiliate is who sold it to them according to auditors records.  They had plans for a partnership with Model Group and Talbert House for low income supportive housing.  I have no idea why they wouldn't just move it to market rate apartments if that project fell through. Very disappointing.

That being said- I checked and it already is designated historic.

Offline hoerstw

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #651 on: September 30, 2013, 01:46:00 AM »
This does seem odd.  They received funding from CMHA in 2011 for the conversion into affordable housing.  I wonder what happened to that project?

And it doesn't make sense to demolish this building for parking, as its footprint isn't that big, would they fit ~50 parking spaces in that area?

Would be awful to see this building torn down for such a short sighted purpose.  Maybe joseph auto group is on a mission to tear down that entire block for parking..

Wouldn't it be difficult to tear down this structure as it is designated historic?

Offline OCtoCincy

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #652 on: September 30, 2013, 02:24:19 AM »

  Maybe joseph auto group is on a mission to tear down that entire block for parking..

They are. Also, assuming the demo costs are as high as $75k, $8 parking a day for a year with 50 spaces could come close to $75k. The rest of their lot is full pretty regularly.

Quote
Wouldn't it be difficult to tear down this structure as it is designated historic?

Difficult, yes, but not impossible.

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #653 on: September 30, 2013, 01:29:09 PM »
I think I remember reading somewhere on UrbanOhio that 1217 Clay Street may be demolished, but I can't find that now. Is that true, or am I mis-remembering?

Offline ink

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #654 on: September 30, 2013, 02:55:55 PM »
^^it is going to cost much more than 75k to demolish the Dennison Hotel.

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #655 on: September 30, 2013, 04:59:56 PM »
Some shots of the Goetz House and Clifton Natural Foods, which are likely to be demolished:




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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #656 on: September 30, 2013, 05:21:12 PM »
The signs in the windows were likely written by the developer, not the family who owns the house.  And if "medical bills" are in fact the reason why they have to sell the house, it's a pretty damn good argument for better health care coverage in the United States for small business owners. 

Offline ryanlammi

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #657 on: September 30, 2013, 06:14:09 PM »
They were trying to sell the house to the developer before any medical issues existed. It wasn't until after the historic designation application was applied for that the father started having health problems. Now they have successfully used the health issues as the reason for selling/demolishing despite the actual order of events.
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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #658 on: September 30, 2013, 06:23:05 PM »
They were trying to sell the house to the developer before any medical issues existed. It wasn't until after the historic designation application was applied for that the father started having health problems. Now they have successfully used the health issues as the reason for selling/demolishing despite the actual order of events.

Yeah, previously they said they needed to sell the property so they could afford to retire.

Offline OCtoCincy

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #659 on: October 01, 2013, 03:11:45 AM »
The property had been for sale for about 10 years.  The owner of adriatico's said he looked at buying it for adriatico's several years ago but that it would have cost him far more than building his new structure down the street.

I've heard rumors about 1217 as well. To be turned into parking. 

Offline mcmicken

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #660 on: October 01, 2013, 05:31:51 AM »
1606 and 1608 Walnut are being threatened with demolition AGAIN by Freestore/Foodbank.

First they want to tear them down for a loading dock and were denied. They they got government funding to put an unsupervised transitional housing facility, going as far as submitting for permits and zoning changes. Now they want to tear them down again.

Offline Eighth and State

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #661 on: October 19, 2013, 02:33:28 PM »

There are construction fences and an O'Rouke sign around Wilson Auditorium at the University of Cincinnati.


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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #662 on: November 23, 2013, 09:17:21 AM »
Looks like the flatiron building at the top of Sycamore St. is being partially if not completely demolished. 

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #663 on: December 19, 2013, 05:11:36 PM »
Expect this building to be demolished in the coming months to make way for more parking: http://goo.gl/maps/bX6Bz

Offline John S.

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Re: Cincinnati: Demolition Watch
« Reply #664 on: December 20, 2013, 06:13:12 AM »
In the Uptown area which looks to be changing increasingly to commercial use. Are there plans to redevelop the site? The structure itself looks sound and in good repair in the St-view.