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the pope
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^remember when Moda was an "upscale" night club?
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peabody99
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^remember when Moda was an "upscale" night club?
excellent point..it took help form the feds I believe to close in on that nightmare. I do not want to lose my original thought that the stigma of adult clubs is bad-regardless if they are "good" or bad clubs. There is no shame for most go celebrate one night here in there, but to live in such an area (a red light district) is not accpectable from an investiment or quality of life standpoint. We have too much evidence in the city to prove my point (and nationally too)
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3231
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Stage 2 (isn't that the name of the other strip club) isn't what I'd call upscale in the least. I've never been there, but it doesn't look fancy at all.
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peabody99
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^I have finally lured you in. virtual hugs! Now if I can get MTS victory will be mine! You gotta be a Family Guy Fan to to understand that.
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MyTwoSense
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^I have finally lured you in. virtual hugs! Now if I can get MTS victory will be mine! You gotta be a Family Guy Fan to to understand that.
OK Stewie! HA!
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peabody99
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Crains has an article about this today (6/25/07). Can one of you all who subscibe do me a solid and post....thanks a million!
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3231
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i don't see the article anywhere. Can you provide a link?
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jamiec
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Yeah, what does that mean, btw.
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MyTwoSense
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lawd...you yung'uns! "a solid" is "a favor". 
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peabody99
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thanks for the link. If I end up in the bottom of my beloved river in cement shoes for this you know who to go to first
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MyTwoSense
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thanks for the link. If I end up in the bottom of my beloved river in cement shoes for this you know who to go to first
hummm, ColDayMan? he he he
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peabody99
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There is a community meeting regarding this matter at Spaces Gallery on WED June 27 (tomorrow) at 7PM, I honestly cannot report the truth w/o soundling sarcastic -the "facts" according to Cimperman regarding this are too ridiculous to even be believed. Buyer to city beware. Never though it would be me saying this. Close to 1000 pro city posts, I assure you I have no agenda
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3231
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^well, you end up sounding a bit too sarcastic or a bit too biased unless you state of the "facts".
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peabody99
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the facts are the preponderance of research studies (with the exception of those funded by the adult entertainment industry) finds adult entertainment zones have crime and property devaluation issues. the "facts" are in the above links already posted and our own city ordinance also posted had the same finding. Those of you that are Urban College students can go to ask your professors what they think if you have any confusion about my "bias" (sorry, lol). Much of the info I obtained regarding this matter came from this department. I asked the Councilman why Hustler cannot be relocated to another accessible location near downtown that is not next to a park or residential area and does not require a zoning change and I was told "hustler picked the Crooked River Building" no other alternative are on the table despite my suggestion of some. Please come see for yourself at the meeting. Councilman cimperman said the independent research I presented to him is not correct and their is no crime/complaints around any adult clubs downtown and this will not cause residential property devaluation (when all evidence says otherwise). This simply is not true for one, but second they are in areas that do not have the population to complain. Finally even if I were making this up, the reality is the public perception if these places, esp one named after a hard core porn magazine is not positive. We never would have bought in the flats had I known this would happen (and perhaps more important that the city would make such a big move w/o approaching stakeholders first, and then when they did protest, treat them as if they no longer matter). As people recall people that bought into the Stonebridge complex helped build confidence in the beauty of urban living in this community and which in turn helped build value in the Wolstein project. If Hustler is such a great business why not save space for it on F.E.B? Does it not fit in with trying to lure more people downtown? Further there is no parking, it will be made worse when lots convert to parks. There have been a few people that are able to say wow, Cimperman is an OK guy but this is foolish. and they have told him so. however if anyone would like to stand in defense of this I would love to hear the argument other than : "I blindly support my leaders" " or we need to move the east bank forward" I find it curious the only way to do this is to rezone the flats to a red light district. Do people really think this is good for the whole community? You may think your neighborhood is safe from this type of thing, but what would stop this for happening in other parts of the city? As you may know some leadership in OC is watching this like a hawk and concerned. They have already spoken out (including in the press- I already posted this, BTW). You may further say you and your neighbors would protest to stop such a thing, but I was told regardless of what the constituents and stakeholders think the City is going forward. If you think I am not serious ask the Councilman and Chief of Staff yourself. I am not trying to pick on anyone, but this hard to defend this with any logic. Unless someone just likes to argue. I wish I could be more tactful, but I have toned it down a lot. BTW since we are we not sarcastic around here? 
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musky
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Residents criticize strip club district
Thursday, June 28, 2007
Patrick O'Donnell
Plain Dealer Reporter
Plain Dealer article removed for lack of link
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peabody99
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Ok so many issues with this! there were 90 plus people there at one time....and took they most off handed quote. Although true...I would have no problem renting here short term- however public perception (especially people that buy "luxury" condos ) do not support living in red light district. It is a poor investment in my mind (and anyone who does any research in real estate appreciation or customer perception). I have a wide range of types of place I will live and have lived however it is common sense if you purchase something in a higher than average price range, you are going to get buyers that want more (amenities, image, quality of life etc) If we had spent $40,000 for funky little warehouse and rentovated it for ourselves and then resold to an artist in a similar price range that would be one thing. I have a pretty narrow market I can resell too and they do not think a strip area is good. Also this reporter is calling it "apartments" these are homeowners here, not renters. It is a big difference. we cant just move when the lease is up if we don't like it. I do not think this article captured the energy and passion of not just SB people but big city boosters in adjacent communities that are deeply ashamed by this. Many professionals kept asking-arent we who you want in the city...? heard "we are the ones who talk our friends in to moving to the city from the suburbs ..and to Cleveland from out of state and we have been shamed". I hate the quote they put in there, but how people feel is that once the people have bought in the city to the heck with them, the city will move on to the next projects interests. It makes for a fractured city. Even if I had not invested financially in this area, I invested emotionally and I am crushed by the poor planning and insight demonstrated by our leaders.
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peabody99
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I know, I know. I have such a deep mistrust of communicating with the PD..I guess I will have to contact him esp about the apartment thing.
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MyTwoSense
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I know, I know. I have such a deep mistrust of communicating with the PD..I guess I will have to contact him esp about the apartment thing.
I think, rather feel, that "apartment" and "condo" can be used interchangeably. I live in a condo and I use the phrase, "my apartment" all the time. I know you're trying to make the point that you OWN your home though.
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MayDay
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When you're in peabody's situation - it's essential to convey property ownership. There's nothing wrong with renting, rentals, etc. - but the perception is that they haven't made the level of investment in their neighborhood as homeowners have.
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KJP
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I would definitely contact O'Donnell. I always appreciate constructive, intelligent feedback, especially from people directly affected by the story I'm following.
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peabody99
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..l. I always appreciate constructive, intelligent feedback, especially from people directly affected by the story I'm following.
that is probably why you dont work for the PD  .... alright, I will give the guy a chance and contact him later.
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X
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I found it interesting that the story was accompanied by a photo of a woman speaking out in favor of the strip district. This woman has a lot of pull with the local CDC and is the same person who leads the NIMBY opposition to just about any redevelopment in or near Duck Island, including CMHA's Riverview redevelopment. What exactly is her vision for the neighborhood?
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musky
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What was HER name?
Vinci?
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X
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Well, I wasn't going to name names. Just make identification.
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KJP
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Ah yes, Madame LaRue (Her radio show name. She was fired after holding a fake orgasm contest on the air -- see below).
She also was the one who brandished a shotgun while chasing Waterfront Line surveyors from her Flats property, Shorty's Diner. There are other tales of woe involving her ownership stake and other involvement in some questionable businesses in Clark-Metro and other neighborhoods.
She's connected politically to Tom Coyne, Jimmy DiMora and reportedly a business associate of Tony George. Any questions as to why she's supportive of the strip district?
___________________________
Cleveland News Index
Title:
* WJMO-FM fires Rosemary Vinci, aka Madam LaRue, after contest flap
In:
* Plain Dealer 29 Aug, 1992, pg. 05 sec. D
+++++++++++++++++
Title:
* WZJM deejay Rosemary Vinci fired; ends the female morning team test; Vinci had an "attitude problem," station owner says
In:
* Plain Dealer 08 Mar, 1994, pg. 15 sec. E
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musky
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I love my family!
That's my mom's side... you should see my dad's.
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peabody99
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yes. I was wondering who this famed lady was...I hate to say it but every knew she was a plant for the "business"...even Cimperman and Silliiman were sweating bullets b/c they knew we would see right through her if she has to speak. They avoided calling on her until her strong man insited she get to speak. Several people sent tips my way to expect her. We were all laughing b/c so many pople said intelligent things and she got up and cameras were snapping. frankly the dumdest thing I said (despite being true) was quoted by the PD. For the record if this $hit happens (3 clubs) and I can sell my unit, I would like to stay in the flats as a renter. the neighborhood is the best. I just am not going to invest big $$ to live in a red light district. She tried to paint us as a bunch of uptight yuppies and asked "how many of you people have actually been to a strip club" well a huge number raised their hand..People yelled we dont want to live near them all! Musky you have an intertesting family!
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