Topic: Cincinnati City Council

[Rob Jaques]

I really don't get this 'blame the victim' bullsh!t. Seelbach's the one who got jumped. He didn't do anything wrong, and there's no real evidence to suggest otherwise.

And COA T is really going overboard with the "drunk bar brawling councilman" comments. Its really out of hand.

[jdm00]

I think it's just the circumstances that have people suspicious.  So he got "jumped."  But it doesn't sound like it was a mugging or there was any theft of any kind.   Factor in the fact he's been drinking, and the "I just got randomly jumped" story becomes tougher to sell.  (I say this having no idea what actually happened; just trying to explain why Seelbach is taking some heat.) 

[natininja]

No one seems to be mentioning the gay angle. It hurts the right's position that it is his fault, or it could happen to anyone, or that gays are not really discriminated against. It hurts the left's position that Cincinnati is tolerant and this was a random act unlikely to reoccur.

It is one possible motive, though, which is consistent with Seelbach's story. It could also be a botched mugging.

It won't be the end of his career unless something more comes out, like if something happens with the sexual harassment allegation.

[CincyGuy45202]

As a public figure, Seelbach managed to score his very own "Jerry Springer Meltdown" event.  Good luck to him as his political career now slides downhill.

This is a ridiculous comment.  A year an a half from now when he's up for reelection people won't be talking about how while he was walking home from a bar he got jumped and called 911 drunk.

If you think a drunk 911 call ruins a political career you don't pay much attention to politics. Sen. Vitter had sex with multiple prostitutes & has been reelected in a conservative state.  Clinton cheated on his wife & he's beloved.

[CincyGuy45202]

It won't be the end of his career unless something more comes out, like if something happens with the sexual harassment allegation.

How the hell can you call one guys random (and immediately deleted) post on reddit a "sexual harrassment allegation".  That's hilarious.  Pretty sure the Enquirer interviewed the manager of Bakersfield and she said it was a regular night, nothing happened.

Next we're gonna read 4Chan for the inside scoop on PG's dating life or the Mayors night life.

[subocincy]

^^ LOL.  (I guess we'll all just have to wait and see, won't we?)      

[FakeCinEnquirer]

It won't be the end of his career unless something more comes out, like if something happens with the sexual harassment allegation.

How the hell can you call one guys random (and immediately deleted) post on reddit a "sexual harrassment allegation".  That's hilarious.  Pretty sure the Enquirer interviewed the manager of Bakersfield and she said it was a regular night, nothing happened.

Next we're gonna read 4Chan for the inside scoop on PG's dating life or the Mayors night life.

Exactly.  This was an opportunistic idea of COAST designed to attack a democrat in public office. 

They spread this dishonest rumor through made up facebook screen names and anonymous internet trolling. 

"Marcus Polk" and "James Dego" were parroting the exact same talking points about Seelbach that just happened to be written about on the COAST website....The talking points were almost word for word

[natininja]

I didn't mean to make it sound official or give it credence, I was just saying that type of thing would end someone's career. In the technical sense of the word, it was an allegation.

al·le·ga·tion /ˌaliˈgāSHən/Noun: A claim or assertion that someone has done something illegal or wrong, typically one made without proof.

[Quimbob]

At a recent finance committee meeting 9/24? Streetcar supporters & opponents organized & about 50 people spoke.
It was strange to hear so many people say the represented some group or demographic. I really got the impression they were just representing themselves. Even the notion of the NAACP president representing the organization in Cincinnati would be a false assumption as one joins the national organization and not the local one.
Ex-Councilwoman Murray mentioned her affiliations but didn't say she represented those groups.
I guess I'm wondering if these people are lying or if they believe they really represent somebody.

[taestell]

Maybe some of you will enjoy my recent exchange with P.G. Sittenfeld on Twitter:

Me: Didn’t @VotePG say that he’d “support the will of the voters” or some line like that?
P.G.: @taestell @jenlkessler thx to u both for ur advocacy. i put a response to a post on my fb page that sheds light in more than 140 characters!
P.G.: @taestell @jenlkessler i know we all want whats best 4 city + show that commitment in many ways, but have different financial risk tolerance
Me: .@VotePG The problem I & others have is that we would’ve liked to hear a clear “I don’t support the streetcar project” from you long ago.
P.G.: @taestell whether u believe it or not Ive never felt that way & I still dont There's a difference btw doing something + doing it responsibly
Me: @VotePG I’m glad to hear that. I’d just like to read more about what you do/don’t like about the current streetcar plan.
P.G.: @taestell sure! We can talk by phone, or you can even come by city hall. I certainly understand why there's so much emotion on both sides...
P.G.: @taestell ...but hope reasonable thoughtful minds can still have honest conversation ab its real liabilities + points of improvement

[Quimbob]

I realize the generational thing might be a little backwards here but what the hell - Sittenfeld has nothing to say.

The Kinks - Nothing To Say

[FakeCinEnquirer]

Chris Smitherman is in yet another argument/controversy.  He lives for drama

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/25/trotter-deters-buying-black-votes-naacp-wrong/

[Quimbob]

I heard one time that your hair is the roots of your brain. This might be proof of the veracity of that claim.

Winburn proposes $175M fund to create jobs, reduce deficit
'Cincinnati City Council Job Growth Committee Chair Charlie Winburn has presented a proposal to use all of the proceeds from Horseshoe Casino Cincinnati to fund a revolving economic and neighborhood development job fund, which he says will help eliminate the City's estimated $40 million general fund deficit and move its pension system toward solvency.'

http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2012/10/winburn-proposes-175m-fund-to-create.html

[natininja]

Haha. So, basically, he wants to spend the city's way to prosperity. How very Republican of him??

[jmecklenborg]

Smitherman out at the NAACP?

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20121003/NEWS01/310030127?nclick_check=1

[OTR]

Dan Hurley - NewsMakers 09-30-2012 - Second Half on Vimeo

[taestell]

^ So, Quinlivan lays out all the benefits of Issue 4 (saves taxpayers money, allows council members to spend more time working and less time campaigning), and Sittenfeld keeps saying that two-year terms are better because it makes city council members more accountable to the voters. Then, in the last 30 seconds, he admits that he would support four-year terms if we also had a hybrid system between wards and at-large council members. So... if we had wards, he's okay with the council members being "less accountable" for their actions? (Admittedly, they didn't have time to discuss it further.) It seems like an amateur political mistake for Sittenfeld to even make that point.

[Quimbob]

^I have to agree with Quinlivan - do 1 thing at a time.

[ryanlammi]

At one point Roxanne Qualls said, "Don't let the great get in the way of the good" and I think this is a perfect example of this. Let's pursue 4-year terms and hopefully Sittenfeld will pursue a system with 5 districts and 4 at-large seats on council.

What I think Sittenfeld is trying to say is that in a race of nine people it is hard to know who to really trust with four years in office. If you have districts, you have one councilmember who belongs to your region. You can focus on that district and make a very informed decision on him/her and the other 4 at-large members you can vote for.

My favorite option would be: 5 districts with 2-year terms and four at-large seats with 4-year terms. The cost of campaigning the districts would pale in comparison to the cost of campaigning the entire city, so the districts could be elected in two-year intervals. This would make sure that the district councilmembers are being held responsible to their specific constituents and it would give the at-large members time to settle down and get things done.

[Quimbob]

don't like districts. I think people in Cincinnati identify more with their neighborhoods than their police district. I would imagine Oakley would resent being run by Hyde Park & Northside by Clifton, etc.
I'd keep everything at large & maybe upgrade community council status. Luken & Lemmie downgraded the community councils for some reason.

[ryanlammi]

What exactly do you mean by downgraded? I assume that means they hold less power than before, but what powers did they lose?

[ryanlammi]

The thing I like about districts is that it gives all of the neighborhoods someone to contact for neighborhood-specific issues on a city level of government. I think people would be more inclined to vote if there were districts and I think these councilmembers would feel more approachable to everyone in their district. It also gives a voice to places like Kennedy Heights who seems to get very little attention. A councilmember can essentially ignore a large majority of Cincinnati and still get elected and reelected.

I'm fine with giving more power to the community councils, but I don't think that districts are a bad idea. It wouldn't take anything away from the community councils.

EDIT: Also, I think that regionalism needs to be expanded in the city as well as the county. This would be a great way to start. The districts could facilitate things like transportation planning (light rail, BRT, buses, HSR, streetcars, Eastern Corridor, road expansions, complete streets, etc) that span multiple neighborhoods. Currently no one is responsible for districts of the city and I think that is a shame and part of the reason these things don't happen as quickly as they could.

[natininja]

Good discussion here. I am no fan of Sittenfeld, but his position makes some sense to me (even if I don't agree with it). He looks at 4-year terms as a decrease in democracy and a ward system as an increase. If you abstract democracy into a currency, it makes sense. Give up some in term length (for gains in campaign costs, focus on governing, etc.) and make up for that loss of democracy by increasing it through a ward system.

[Living in Gin]

My experience in Chicago --  with its ward-based system where each alderman has near-dictatorial control over things like business and building permits within his ward -- leaves me very nervous about the idea of any sort of district-based system. If somebody is voting on policies that impact the city at large, then that person should be elected by the city at large.

That said, I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of strengthening the community councils for neighborhood-specific issues. New York City has an active system of community boards that provide an effective forum for neighborhood concerns, and make for a relatively accessible city government despite New York City's gargantuan size and complicated governing structure.

[JohnClevesSymmes]

Reason for supporting districts/wards: Helps remove "money" from politics because you don't have to cover as much area.

I happen to agree with some of Sittenfeld's arguments against 4 year terms - removes accountability and potentially delays changes such as the one voters obviously desired in 2011.  With 4 years between elections and continuing our at-large system, council members will be out of sight and out of mind for the electorate.  Council actually gets some news coverage during the run up to the election, which I for one appreciate. In a district/ward system, constituents are much more likely to monitor the actions of their member.

I also take issue with Quinliven's statement that council "can't get anything done" during an election year and needs more time for "strategic planning". The Mayor has 4 years and the City Manager has no term limit so it seems like they should be able to get things done and plan strategically.  I fail to see how 4 year terms will somehow make council members "less political."

[Rob Jaques]

Yeah... I've always been impressed with the level of civic involvement and access in as large a city as New York. People have great representation through their borough and community boards which can then translate up to at-large city governance. I wonder if such a system would be effective here? Already some community/neighborhood councils are more active and involved than others.

[GCrites80s]

I don't like wards. They can enable strife.

[CincyGuy45202]

So why doesnt the Senate or the mayor be 4 years?

Also, PG is full of crap with his reasons to be against 4 year terms (he only opposes it because he knows with more money than anyone ever he will always win).

He says he would rather have wards. HE WILL NEVER propose a ward map or support anyone else's proposal because the second you support a map you piss off someone. The black community strongly opposed wards the last time because there was no way wards could be drawn to where there would always be 4 African American councilmembers. The same would be true today (except at large we have 5 African American councilmembers with 3 living in the same neighborhood. Also, Qualls, Seelbach, Simpson & Sittenfeld all live in what would undoubtedly be one district.

[ryanlammi]

^ Simpson lives in West End, Seelbach lives in OTR, Quinlivan lives in Mt. Lookout (I'm not sure what neighborhoods Qualls and Sittenfeld live in. Hyde Park and ) Assuming they use police districts as political districts (not sure if that would be the way it works): Qualls/Quinlivan would be in the same district and Simpson/Seelbach would be in the same district. I don't have any idea where Sittenfeld lives, but he would probably run at-large anyway since he performed so well.

[Rob Jaques]

Seelbach and Qualls are both in OTR. Qualls lives in the The Emery Center Apartments. Quinlivan lives in Columbia-Tusculum, doesn't she?

I think Sittenfeld is Mt. Lookout, though I don't know for sure.

[CincyGuy45202]

PG lives in the Emery too. So.

3 councilmembers live in OTR and one lives in the west end. If someone believes districts would be drawn that split OTR & the West end they are out of their minds.

Also, everyone here should note that only one part of the city categorically "wins" by adding districts. The Westside. The Westside would probably have two districts if they are drawn by population.

[jmecklenborg]

Wards are bad, bad news.  What do individual neighborhoods need that they're not presently getting (that city government can provide under Ohio law)? 

[taestell]

Good discussion here. I am no fan of Sittenfeld, but his position makes some sense to me (even if I don't agree with it). He looks at 4-year terms as a decrease in democracy and a ward system as an increase. If you abstract democracy into a currency, it makes sense. Give up some in term length (for gains in campaign costs, focus on governing, etc.) and make up for that loss of democracy by increasing it through a ward system.

Maybe that's true, but Sittenfeld says he'd be OK with implementing 4-year terms and wards at the same time. So wouldn't that basically be a wash in terms of increasing/decreasing "democracy"?

[taestell]

Wards are bad, bad news.  What do individual neighborhoods need that they're not presently getting (that city government can provide under Ohio law)? 

I don't understand the need for wards, and I think it would halt a lot of the progress that has been made in improving the urban core. Cincinnatians voted for a mayor and city council members that have made improving the city's core their top priority, with the understanding that improving the downtown area benefits every neighborhood. With a ward system, I think you'll have council members vying for projects in their specific wards, regardless of what's best for the city as a whole. Yes, every neighborhood needs investment from the city, but we have been able to do that with the current at-large system.

[jmecklenborg]

That's right, it increases in-fighting.  Again, what city services do these "neighborhoods" need that they aren't already getting?  Poor areas already get a disproportionate amount of services from the city in the form of increased police protection, which is far and away the city's greatest expense.