Topic: Cleveland Neighborhoods in 2016

[the pope]

university circle:

last I checked is the largest employment zone outside of the CBD, so if the powers that be can collectively pull their heads out of their asses and capitalize on: employment numbers, two rapid transit stations, good bus service, a BRT line, best collection of culture in NE ohio and a top notch university.

[From Heights to Harlem]

Wow, there seems to be construction going on all over Cleveland.  Reading the PD, you'd think the city was about to go up in smoke! 
Why doesn't anyone know this stuff? 

Cleveland is a big city and could capitlize on the great housing values, tons of medium to high paying jobs, to people living on the east coast, as the Cleveland is very similar to Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore and Washington, DC.  Some rail lines criss-crossing the city, some hotels and retail...

[Evergrey]

the Cleveland is very similar to Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore and Washington, DC. 

These aren't exactly the cities that come to mind when I think of Cleveland.  And when did we start referring to it as THE Cleveland?  Baltimore is a similar sized metro, but the other three are all over twice the size of Cleveland's metro.  They have much different economies, much different cultures, much different housing stock, much different architecture, etc.  It's the vanguard of the East Coast vs. the quintessential Midwestern Great Lakes industrial city.

I don't disagree, however, that Cleveland can lure East Coasters from those overheated markets.  Cheap housing and cultural amenities are two attributes Cleveland can claim.  However, the city proper unfortunately is not awash in the type of quality housing stock that these East Coasters would be looking for... in contrast to other regional large cities like Cincinnati, Columbus and Pittsburgh.  I suspect downtown area condo development, as well as some of the older inner-ring suburbs, would be the prime areas for luring East Coasters.

[blinker12]

However, the city proper unfortunately is not awash in the type of quality housing stock that these East Coasters would be looking for... in contrast to other regional large cities like Cincinnati, Columbus and Pittsburgh.

While I agree to an extent, there is some wonderful Victorian and early 20th-century housing in Near West Side neighborhoods like Ohio City, Detroit-Shoreway and Edgewater... it just happens to be mostly wood-frame. On the East Side, Glenville has exquisite 1900-1920s houses and apartment buildings, though many are dilapidated; and Shaker Square has dense 1920s apartment buildings. Let's also not forget our wealth of old warehouse buildings, ripe for redevelopment into loft apartments. In short, the housing stock would be much more appealing to East Coasters than what you'd find in a newer city like Phoenix or maybe even Minneapolis.

I also think that culturally, East Coasters would feel more at home in Cleveland than in many other Midwestern cities, considering Cleveland's Democratic politics (67% for Kerry in Cuyahoga County in 2004), world-class arts and educational resources (which you already mentioned) and strong transit system.

[Evergrey]

Good point about the tudor apartment buildings of Shaker Square... love those things... similar apartment buildings are found throughout some of the inner-ring suburbs.

Glenville is one of my favorite Cleveland neighborhoods when it comes to housing stock... but unfortunately the neighborhood is not in the best shape right now.

[jamiec]

I studied in Boston a few years back for like six weeks, and while it's a lot bigger than Cleveland, it reminded me of home because it is, for the most part, a bunch of neighborhoods like Cleveland. University Circle could be like Cleveland's own Harvard Square.

But Cleveland should just be Cleveland.

[MyTwoSense]

I studied in Boston a few years back for like six weeks, and while it's a lot bigger than Cleveland, it reminded me of home because it is, for the most part, a bunch of neighborhoods like Cleveland. University Circle could be like Cleveland's own Harvard Square.

But Cleveland should just be Cleveland.

Cleveland and Boston proper are almost the same size in population. They have a little more than 500k and we have a lil under. 

[JDD941]

It's funny to me that many people on this thread assume that everyone on the East coast lives in a brownstone or a brick rowhouse.  I have seen MANY place in Eastern Queens and Long Island that have housing stock very similar to Cleveland.....and yes, even housing with vinyl siding!   My friend loves Cleveland even more so than living in Queens.  She thinks Cleveland offers a LOT to do, isn't to small, but not as suffocating as NYC can be....and the cost of living is great.  I think we try to compare Cleveland to other places too much instead just being Cleveland.

[j73]

Re:UC.  Biggest concern (and in some wyas oppty) is that the big institutions run things there.  If they decide to invest in creating a residential neighborhood, they have the resources to make it happen.  But if they just keep sitting on their asses, the neighborhood will pretty much just stagnate.

I guess Glenville is just too far to even make the list?  I wouldn't vote for it, but there's some activity there and the proximity to UC and Rockefeller Park make it at least interesting...

[surfohio]

I voted for the Flats. I can honestly see that area potentially becoming like Fells Point in Baltimore. A unique, historical waterfront neighborhood with a good mix of retail, catering to both residents and visitors alike.

[KJP]

The Townhouses at Courtland Court, Phase II

GRAND OPENING
TONIGHT! January 18, 2007
5:00-8:00pm

5415 St. Stephens Court
(Off West 54th Street Just South of Bridge Avenue)

Refreshments provided by:
Gypsy Beans and Baking Co.

Artwork on Display by Local Artists
Jen Doss
&
Chris Kaspar

REGISTER TO WIN
2 Tickets to a Performance at
Cleveland Public Theatre
and
a $20 Gift Certificate to
Gypsy Beans and Baking Co.

The Townhouses at Courtland Court, Phase II is a new development of 16 spacious townhomes in the Bridge Square area of Detroit Shoreway.

Priced from $179,900, unit features include: spacious modern floor plans, 10-foot ceilings on the main level, vaulted bedroom ceilings, two bedrooms, 1.5-2.5 baths, deck and patio options, a new private street, attached two-car garage and no monthly fees. Reduced-rate financing and 15 year tax abatement available

###

[X]

It'd be interesting to compare the Bridge Square area with northern Detroit Shoreway, Tremont Ridge and the Clinton area of OC as per the number of townhouses and pricepoints that they are going at.  Those seem to be the hottest little subneighborhoods for townhouses in Cleveland.

[mrnyc]

It's funny to me that many people on this thread assume that everyone on the East coast lives in a brownstone or a brick rowhouse.  I have seen MANY place in Eastern Queens and Long Island that have housing stock very similar to Cleveland.....and yes, even housing with vinyl siding!   My friend loves Cleveland even more so than living in Queens.  She thinks Cleveland offers a LOT to do, isn't to small, but not as suffocating as NYC can be....and the cost of living is great.  I think we try to compare Cleveland to other places too much instead just being Cleveland.

ditto! just to back you up on that...my ozone park queens thread:
http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=7495.0



evergrey i wouldnt call boston, dc, balto and philly overheated housing markets. at least not what i have heard recently. timely that you said that tho -- this will interest everybody --- read this recent nytimes article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/16/realestate/16rentals.html?ex=157680000&en=35c46a73433dc5bc&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

[Boreas]

University Circle and East Cleveland, based on the new mobility enabled by the Euclid Corridor Transit project. 

[From Heights to Harlem]

East cleveland does have some great housing stock.  It, like hough and fairfax, need some TLC.

[Mov2Ohio]

^Exactly.

[jamiec]

Don't know if there is a better place to talk about the Mayor's "Connecting Cleveland 2020 Citywide Plan" that was debuted today!

There's some good stuff in here. What do you think? http://www.city.cleveland.oh.us

I'm still reading through this whole thing! It's 123 pages!

[KJP]

Sun didn't even get a press release about Connecting Cleveland.

[FrqntFlyr]

^^I'll post the Crain's article about it here, but I agree jamiec, this probably warrants a new thread.  It seems to be pretty extensive.

^I didn't see anything on the PD website about it either, which was surprising because Crain's had a blurb.  Obviously, this plan was selectively debuted.


________________________________________________________________
Mayor announces redevelopment strategy
By JAY MILLER
3:14 pm, January 22, 2007


Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson today announced a long-term redevelopment strategy that includes a $1.6 billion capital improvements program.

The strategy focuses on creating an environment that is attractive to new business investment in the city and its neighborhoods.

More at:
http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20070122/FREE/70122022

[FrqntFlyr]

PDF overview:  http://www.city.cleveland.oh.us/pdf/Development%20Plan%20Exec%20Summary%201-22-07.pdf

[punch]

This may deserve its own thread.  There are lots of little nuggets in there, for instance, over $500 million for port operations.  How much of this is for the port of Cleveland, and how much for the airports?

[bizbiz]

Give Mayor Jackson's new plan it's own thread!!!

[clvlndr]

I think that UC will grow big time once the CC and UH complete their expansions, around the same time that the Euclid Corridor will be completed. Also with the CC/CWRU shared facility, "The Triangle" and the re-location of MOCA, we should see some housing thrown into all of that. Good examples of UC's bright future can be hinted by looking at how Woodhaven and Beacon Place are just about fully sold out.

I agree, I think UC will be the booming hood which is why I voted for it.  However, I disagree that the growth of either CC and UH will help UC's success.  In fact, I feel exactly the opposite.  I think these huge, souless institutions have snuffed out too much residential/commercial life as it is, esp UH, which has gobbled up a ton of old apartment buildings and houses (often to parking garages!) and, now, my beloved Club Isabella is succoring to UH expansion.  Actually, I really don't consider CC in UC anyway.  I also disagree that ECP is going to have much positive impact on the neighborhood.  I think the Red Line Rapid, w/ the E. 120 relocation near the Triangle, will have a much bigger and better impact.  I also don't consider Beacon Place in UC either -- it's in Hough, really.  I think the Triangle (if we can ever get a solvent developer and if we can ever put a leash on the Hessler NIMBY/BANANAs) will be the lynchpin in UC's success.  I also think the development of the quadrangle, the Park Lane Villa and E.105/108 housing rehab, along with greater linkage with Little Italy, will also push the UC area forward.

[AMN]

This thread is four years old.

People still feeling good about then-predictions?

I would say the Detroit Shoreway folks or UC folks are probably the front runners right now.

[3231]

Currently, I think Tremont is blowing away the competition. They have quietly been adding a lot of infill housing recently. I think that Ohio City will do well. I think Detroit-Shoreway gets more attention than it deserves for its housing progress.

UC/Little Italy will probably look the most different because of Uptown.

[327]

I think that UC will grow big time once the CC and UH complete their expansions, around the same time that the Euclid Corridor will be completed. Also with the CC/CWRU shared facility, "The Triangle" and the re-location of MOCA, we should see some housing thrown into all of that. Good examples of UC's bright future can be hinted by looking at how Woodhaven and Beacon Place are just about fully sold out.

I agree, I think UC will be the booming hood which is why I voted for it.  However, I disagree that the growth of either CC and UH will help UC's success.  In fact, I feel exactly the opposite.  I think these huge, souless institutions have snuffed out too much residential/commercial life as it is, esp UH, which has gobbled up a ton of old apartment buildings and houses (often to parking garages!) and, now, my beloved Club Isabella is succoring to UH expansion.  Actually, I really don't consider CC in UC anyway.  I also disagree that ECP is going to have much positive impact on the neighborhood.  I think the Red Line Rapid, w/ the E. 120 relocation near the Triangle, will have a much bigger and better impact.  I also don't consider Beacon Place in UC either -- it's in Hough, really.  I think the Triangle (if we can ever get a solvent developer and if we can ever put a leash on the Hessler NIMBY/BANANAs) will be the lynchpin in UC's success.  I also think the development of the quadrangle, the Park Lane Villa and E.105/108 housing rehab, along with greater linkage with Little Italy, will also push the UC area forward.

clvndr FTW... spot on with the predictions, so far.  Euclid Corridor overrated, hospitals unhelpful, loss of apartment stock hindering growth, solvent developer appears for Uptown but full potential is frustrated by Hessler NIMBYs.

[skorasaurus]

A lot of time has passed since the last post.

We're past the half way point (2011) and only 4 more years left. 

The US Census was updated... http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/map

Looking back on this, the economy and the foreclosure crisis slowed residential growth, or accelerated its decrease, in most Cleveland neighborhoods.
Detroit-Shoreway's population as a whole isn't growing: each of the census tracts' 2000 population there had decreased by 10% in 2010, including Battery Park's (Tract #1012).

UC: Increased from 2000, [although I wonder how much of it is from CWRU's growing enrollment) and will continue to do so.
[Side note: Could a Spartan check out what the enrollment for Spring 2010 is ? http://www.case.edu/registrar/stats.html requires a university log-in


Although depending on the economy recovers, some neighborhoods [slavic village] could be be booming [experiencing an increase in residents] compared to 2007/2008.


Interestingly, Downtown wasn't even included in this poll and that would get my vote. 

[Oldmanladyluck]

Count some of the inner east side hoods as down and out- Kinsman/MtPleasant, St Clair/Superior, South Collinwood, much of Glenville and Hough [north of Hough Ave.]. The sooner the vacant and abandoned properties come down, the quicker home prices in these neighborhoods can begin to bounce back, finally creating more of a market to redevelop in. As of now, there's very little hope for rebound in these areas.

[ClevelandOhio]

I still think that even Tremont and Ohio City have a long way to go. Progress has been great, but there is still plenty left to do. I think those neighborhoods need to top off before we see any major boom in any down and out neighborhood.

[8ShadesofGray]

I do regret not putting up a fuller list of neighborhoods in the poll, which reflected some biases about what neighborhoods already WERE booming residential centers. But looking at Ohio City and what's happened there over the past year, or what's been happening around downtown, we could have probably also surveyed where the "established" nabes would be

Looking at the Census maps, I think it's also interesting to see that where visual evidence of investment is the greatest and where population is gaining are not necessarily the same thing. Downtown and University Circle saw big residential booms, but other areas of population growth were in the southwest neighborhoods (Kamm's, Riverside and the near east neighborhoods (Asiatown, Midtown/Central, parts of St. Clair Superior and Euclid-Green). My guess is that these areas are disproportionately drawing larger households than the near west nabes are ... larger families, immigrant households, multi-student units, etc.

[Keith M.]

I think the reason Cleveland neighborhoods haven't been improving faster is the housing stock. Very little extent stock meets the tastes of upper- or even middle-class people of today. Much was built fast and cheap for working-class immigrants. We'd have to seriously incentivize redevelopment of these old houses (i.e., restrict new development) to get them into use again. Slavic Village is a case in point. Breathtaking commercial district at Broadway and E. 55th, but the middling housing stock outweighs that.

I disagree: invest more into the commercial streets and then worry about housing. People in Portland will pay $200,000-$200,000 a small, old and ugly house. It was funny to see homes on House Hunters that are maybe $100,000 in Columbus twice or triple that price in Portland, because those homes in Columbus are in areas that don't have sh!t to do. That: all just to be near a happening commercial strip. Provide incentives to fill in the rest, along with starting a few business incubators, and I think you'll see Slavic Village and North Collinwood pick up some serious steam. With that said however, I went with the majority here: I'm guessing Detroit-Shoreway. Not bad for a longtime Columbus resident with only a passing knowledge of C-town.

[KJP]

Not bad for a longtime Columbus resident with only a passing knowledge of C-town.

Really??

[327]

Strongly agree with Keith M. on this.  Cleveland needs to focus on getting retail into its commercial strips.  Retail is what makes an urban neighborhood liveable.  Without that it's effectively just another suburb... with more crime, smaller yards, and a longer drive to the mall. 

[Hts121]

I am not sure if there is a single neighborhood or City which does not want retail on their commercial strips.  The issue becomes how much does the City, which is already cash strapped, incentivize the retailers to get on board with a "if you build it, they will come" strategy.  The acclaimed urban utopia of Minneapolis, I believe, really throws a lot of cash at some of their big name retailers, which is demanded in spite of its much larger population base near the city's core.  You also have to be careful and strategic in your planning.  The domino effect can work both ways.  If you jump the gun and some large retailer has a massive failure (even with incentives), that will only discourage other prospective retailers from setting up shop.  IMHO, there is no simplistic approach.  Too many complexities are involved and the groundwork has to be laid first.  Only big box developments just magically pop out of the ground.  Vibrant retail strips evolve.

[327]

When looking at individual neighborhoods, as we are here, I don't believe large retailers are all that important.  Most never had one to begin with and couldn't really accommodate one today.  If we're comparing to M/SP, the smaller units along its commercial strips are mostly full, and this is throughout the metro rather than just downtown near the major stuff.  Point is, getting those shops open along our main streets will pay residential dividends down every side street.  It's the most direct way for any Cleveland neighborhood to take a quantum leap forward.

What I'm getting at is that if some neighborhood with a reasonably intact commercial district (like Slavic Village) were to focus its funding on retail offerings, rather than curbs and planters and the like, rather than acres of retail-free housing developments... it would likely see residential and office demand start growing on their own.  You could call it a multiplier effect.  When your obvious gaping deficit is retail, so much so that the neighborhood has ceased to function as designed, improvements in retail will produce the most growth/dollar.